Ed Kettner Drilling 10.75x65R Collath

[CraigThompson]

Shot the Ed Kettner drilling we've had for about 2 years today for the first time !

This thing is a hammergun in 16 , 16 and 10.75x65R Collath . It however will function with a slightly shorter downloaded 444 Marlin case which I just happen to have an abundance of !

The gun !

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/German%20Guns/Kettner001.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/German%20Guns/Kettner003.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/German%20Guns/Kettner004.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/German%20Guns/Kettner005.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/German%20Guns/Kettner006.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/German%20Guns/Kettner009.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/German%20Guns/Kettner010.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/German%20Guns/Kettner013.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/German%20Guns/Kettner014.jpg

[CraigThompson]

Anything I could find about this round said it was a low pressure round that shot a 200 grain bullet at a moderate pressure . And actual diameter was .424" .

So I happened to have some aircooled wheel weight cast bullets from a Castboolits Group Buy 434-207GC mold already cast and proven on deer at what I consider more realistic velocities .

But I decided to try them in 444 cases with 15 grains Unique , 16 grains Unique , 15 grains SR7625 , 16 grains SR7625 , 16 grain SR4756 and 17 grains SR4756 . I assumed all these loads should be 1700 FPS or less . And after the shooting and averaging were done none averaged over 1600 FPS . The old gun has iron sights and a very very thin rifle barrel so I wasn't expecting to much .

This was the first with 15 grains of Unique , for some reason the Chrony didn't pick these 3 up !

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/Bullet%20Molds/434-207and15Unique.jpg

This was with 16 grains of Unique for an average velocity of 1580 FPS , I kinda think the wide one was my fault !

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/Bullet%20Molds/434-207and16Unique.jpg

This was 15 grains of SR7625 for an average velocity of 1447 FPS .

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/Bullet%20Molds/434-208and15SR7625.jpg

This was 16 grains SR7625 for an average velocity of 1497 FPS .

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/Bullet%20Molds/434-207and16SR7625.jpg

Then it was 16 grains of SR4756 for an average velocity of 1408 FPS .

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/Bullet%20Molds/434-207and16SR4756.jpg

And finally the last one with 17 grains of SR4756 for an average velocity of 1456 FPS .

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/Bullet%20Molds/434-207and17SR4756.jpg


All in all not a bad first effort .

A little later I tried my semi light pressure #1 Buck handloads . The barrels on this drilling miked around IC and M and both barrels put all the buckshot on the board at 25 yards with the modified doing a bit better !

All of it was good for deer at 25 yards . Next effort will be to see how well or bad I do with the open rifle sights at 50 yards !

[charlie cleveland]

good shootin ....charlie ps nice lookin gun

[Rick Losey]

I can add nothing for the round

But - great piece, I love the stag engraving

[Mark Landskov]

Good on ya! It is fun studying, gleaning information, and finally putting it all together. Good job with your cartridges. I am in the same boat with the 6.5x53.5R. Cheers!

[CraigThompson]

A friend has offerred to give me a few pieces of Hornady 405 WCF brass . I'll go buy a 405 WCF shell holder and try necking these up in a 444 Marlin die and then loading them .

The loads with the 444 brass jumped the extractor twice which unto itself is no big deal unless I happen to shoot a doe and then a big buck steps out further then I comfortable throwing #1 Buck at him :whistle:

I'm gonna try and keep from buying the expensive CH-4D 10.75x65R Collath dies .They're like $160+ and I doubt if I;ll shoot this thing more then 5-10 times a year once I decided on the final load .

[CraigThompson]

I am in the same boat with the 6.5x53.5R. Cheers!

I have that Collath single shot rifle in 6.5-52R which as far as I'm concerned is the same thing as a 25-35 WIN . So with that one I'll buy some new factory Winchester ammo when and if I ever finish the several boxes of 1960's REM-UMC 25-35 ammo I have on hand !

[Mark Landskov]

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=156857&CAT=3831

Buffalo Arms has brass from Bertram. It is not cheap, but it is the proper size. Buffalo forms a lot of their brass. I try to buy them before I settle for Bertram. Dies can be spendy. I just bought a set of CH dies for my 43 Dutch. The brass is formed from Starline 50-90. Good luck!

[CraigThompson]

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=156857&CAT=3831

Buffalo Arms has brass from Bertram. It is not cheap, but it is the proper size. Buffalo forms a lot of their brass. I try to buy them before I settle for Bertram. Dies can be spendy. I just bought a set of CH dies for my 43 Dutch. The brass is formed from Starline 50-90. Good luck!

For the 10.75x65R Collath there's no reason to buy from them . A slight trim of Hornady 405 WCF brass , runn the case in the 444 resizer to open the neck put a charge in load the bullet fire it and it's fire formed .

The dimensions of the 25-35 WIN and the 6.5x52R are almost exact so again no reason to buy the expensive stuff .

Heck I think it's bad enough buying 50 pieces of Hornady 405 WCF for $47 .

[CraigThompson]

Incidently , when I finish with this one I'm gonna drag out the hammerless Kerner drilling we have . That ones 16-16 and 7x57R . This one should be a breeze !

On a kinda side note . Two days ago I came in contact with a very nice J.P.Sauer 12-12-7x57R thats for sale . Just might add that one to the accumulation !
I believe this gun to be post WWII from the late 50's to mid 60's although the engraving is bery nice on the gun !
It has a very nice scene on one side of a Roe Buck with a couple dogs and then on the other side it has a pair of Caparacialle (not sure if I spelled that correctly).

[charlie cleveland]

now that 12 by 12 x 7x57r sounds like a winner to me...the 7x57r round is a good round i dropped a few deer this year with it in a suhl drilling...charlie

[CraigThompson]

I made a pair of shims/spacers to go under the 444 Marlin dies and make them the correct height to load 405 WCF in for the 10.75x65R . That way i can keep from moving my die settings for the 25+ 444's I already play with on a regular basis !

I'm gonna maybe get 20 or so pieces of the Hornady 405 WCF brass and that should take care of me for the drilling !

[CraigThompson]

now that 12 by 12 x 7x57r sounds like a winner to me...the 7x57r round is a good round i dropped a few deer this year with it in a suhl drilling...charlie

We have it here in the shop and I just measured the chokes with a set of calipers . I am getting .687" for the right barrel and .684" for the left barrel !

I call that Extra Full and Extra Fullerer :shock:

Bout the only way this thing would be good for deer would be a 140 grain bullet in the 7mm barrel and Breneke slugs in the other two .

Way to tight for buckshot in my always biased opinion .:whistle:

[CraigThompson]

Here are pics of the engraving on the Sauer 12-12-7x57R . I kinda have this thing for Sika and Roe deer .

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/JP%20Sauer%20Drilling/JPSauer008.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/JP%20Sauer%20Drilling/JPSauer009.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/JP%20Sauer%20Drilling/JPSauer010.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/JP%20Sauer%20Drilling/JPSauer012.jpg

[CraigThompson]

As to the capercaillie here's a picture of one as well as a picture of the engraving .


http://www.birdforum.net/opus/images/thumb/a/ab/Western_Capercaillie.jpg/550px-Western_Capercaillie.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/JP%20Sauer%20Drilling/JPSauer009.jpg

[CraigThompson]

Now the Roe Buck !

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/JP%20Sauer%20Drilling/JPSauer010.jpg

http://www.countrysportsandcountrylife.com/sections/stalking/RoeDeer_files/AUbuck3yrsweb.jpg

[charlie cleveland]

boy thats one nice gun...the engraving is wonderful them germans were sure masters at buiding drillings and makeing them lookk good....guess your rite about the chokes being a little tite for buckshot but ive had a few guns with full chokes that shot buckshot pretty good....a brenekee slug placed even close to the rite spot will bring home the bacon....dont you just love these old guns..... charlie

[CraigThompson]

boy thats one nice gun...the engraving is wonderful them germans were sure masters at buiding drillings and makeing them lookk good....guess your rite about the chokes being a little tite for buckshot but ive had a few guns with full chokes that shot buckshot pretty good....a brenekee slug placed even close to the rite spot will bring home the bacon....dont you just love these old guns..... charlie

I agree with you 100% .

Optimum would be one of the shotgun tubes loaded with 00 and the other with a Brenneke and of course a 140 grainer in the rifle tube . But one can't have everything !

If I'm able to acquire this one this week it'll pretty much kill my play cash for Baltimore the following weekend . Which really doesn't bother as I wasn't looking forward to walking around all day saturday on that hard floor !

[CraigThompson]

You know it seems to me when I shot skeet with our Kerner drilling last year it was either black clouds or clkear misses and I put the calipers to the barrels the following day and I believe that ones choked full or better in both barrels as well . However full choke in a 16 gauge with #1 buck shoots rather well sometimes .

May take that one to the pattern board next wednesday just for giggles .

[charlie cleveland]

let us know how she patterns i predict it to well... charlie

[CraigThompson]

Just finished with my 10 cases for the 10.75x65R Collath drilling !

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/German%20Guns/1075x65RCollath001.jpg

Took the first case and rechecked the trimmed length and then primed them all with CCI200 primers . Next I slightly belled the necks of all them in a raised 444 Marlin expander die . Then I measured out a 16.5 grain charge of Unique and poured it in one case . Well actually before that I set the seating die to crimp on the top of the 405 trimmed case . Then after I put the charge in I seated a Castboolits Group Buy 434-207GC bullet and crimped it . That one was a hair above the crimp groove but it went in the gun okay . Took it outside and fired it into a bank and came back in the loading room !

Took the fire formed case and used a RCBS Universal depriming die and knocked the primer out . Cleaned the pocket and reprimed as well as expanded the neck slightly . Recharged the case with Unique and seated another bullet after adjusting the depth a couple red hairs . Tried the loaded round in the case and it was just a hair snug but thats fine since I hadn't sized the case ANY . Took it back outside and fired it in the bank again no problem , case extracted just like it had before .

So I reloaded the same case for the third time and here's the finished product .

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/German%20Guns/1075x65RCollath004.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/German%20Guns/1075x65RCollath003.jpg

Looks like this thing will get run over the Chrony again wednesday just for kicks . I was getting about 1580 FPS with this load in 444 MArlin brass . So I'll just make sure everything is relatively the same and with 10 loaded rounds I should be able to see how well or bad I shoot at 50 yards with open sights !

[charlie cleveland]

craig that should be a real meat gun for sure...make sure to tell us the rest of the storey..... charlie

[CraigThompson]

craig that should be a real meat gun for sure...make sure to tell us the rest of the storey..... charlie

IF it shoots decent at 50 yards this one will be done until we get Damage Control Permits in late july .

And if it does okay I'll just see if I can't scrape around and get some 7x57R brass for the other drilling as well as try my low pressure 16 gauge #1 Buck loads . I doubt that this one will take much effort .

[charlie cleveland]

i bet the old gal will do fine at 50 yards and should do the 100 yard with no problem either...i know the stantard load buckshot load for a sixteen is no 1 buck but ive loaded some no 4 buck it really patterned well...shoot the big gun soon and tell us how she done... charlie

[CraigThompson]

Charlie we finally made a deal on the J.P.Sauer that I posted pics of earlier . Took almost a month to get the guy at a price we were willing to pay . Got a partial box of 7x57R ammo in the deal .

What shell holder do I need for 7x57R ? Or rather what RCBS number shell holder should I get ?

[charlie cleveland]

craig i can not help you with the number...wish i could...youll love the 7x57r.... charlie

[George Blair]

Charlie we finally made a deal on the J.P.Sauer that I posted pics of earlier . Took almost a month to get the guy at a price we were willing to pay . Got a partial box of 7x57R ammo in the deal .

What shell holder do I need for 7x57R ? Or rather what RCBS number shell holder should I get ?

Craig, just looked up RCBS 7x57R Mauser dies and they list the shell holder as a # 26

[CraigThompson]

Craig, just looked up RCBS 7x57R Mauser dies and they list the shell holder as a # 26

Thanks !

When I got home today I tried the shell holder for the 416 Rigby that I've been using with the 405 WIN brass and it seems to do alright with the 7x57R brass as well .
I already have 7x57 dies so after a range trip wednesday I'll be set to try some loads .