Parker repros vs. Parker originals

[Mills Morrison]

At the risk of starting a fight on this forum, what is everyone's take on the quality of Parker Reproductions vs. vintage Parkers? Advantages and disadvantages? :corn:

[David Holes]

I have several D grade originals and 1 repo. The repo would be the first to go.

[Mills Morrison]

My idea of a quality gun is one that is old enough to not require an FFL for shipping. I shot my vintage GH (pre 1898) with no problems whatsoever and my wife shot her brand new Benelli 28 automatic and it jammed every other shot.

[Sam Ogle]

As to manufactured quality: The steel in the Reproductions was better than in the older ones, which is simply a matter of technology advances over 50 years.
The Repro's did not use the case coloring techniques the old ones did, and their colors wear off very fast.
Still and all, If I were to try to find an original 28 gauge DHE with straight stock and single trigger.....Wow, the cost.
I think the Repro's; with the exception of the case coloring are every bit as good, if not better.
(Excuse me, while I duck and run for cover.......cause there's sure to be some incomings.)

Sam Ogle, Lincoln, NE

[Chuck Heald]

The original guns had real hand cut engraving, where Repro's have impressed engraving or etched with some hand cut accents. The stock finish is ...well yellow looking. A little red/brown stain would help. Those and the lack of real casecolors are the only few physical characteristics that are negatives to me. All the other physical characteristics are hands down better on a repro.

But the real big intangible is the fact that the gun is not a classic vintage American made gun and it's made in Japan. If the gun had been made in the US, it would have undoubtedly greater following and a long, ever popular appeal here in the US.

[Mills Morrison]

I don't have any repros, but my Dad has two. They don't have the classic look, but obviously have the benefit of technology available in the 80's which was not available prior to WWII.

[Dave Suponski]

I agree with Sam. The materials are better through advaces in technology.But there just is something about the vintage Parker that transends that. I can't wait until my one Repro losses all it case colors and the wood starts to show wear. Then and only then will it have accumulated enough hunting time to have its own storys to tell.

[Bruce Day]

Lots were sold in 28 and 20 ga. Lots with single triggers and beavertail forends. If that is what you want, your odds of finding that in an original Parker border on slim to none. So for those folks, a Repro is the best choice.
A Repro can be refinished with real charcoal case colors and a correct lacquer/oil stock finish and they look very nice.
We've been showing Repros in the racks with all the other Parkers at Pheasant Fest and other exhibitions. Won't catch me badmouthing Repros.

[Chuck Heald]

I think the overwelming opinion of owners of Repros is that they are very good-excellent guns. But almost all would prefer if it had been made here if they could have magically been sold for the same price.

[Greg Baehman]

I have several D grade originals and 1 repo. The repo would be the first to go.

What's a repo?

[Mills Morrison]

Lots were sold in 28 and 20 ga. Lots with single triggers and beavertail forends. If that is what you want, your odds of finding that in an original Parker border on slim to none. So for those folks, a Repro is the best choice.
A Repro can be refinished with real charcoal case colors and a correct lacquer/oil stock finish and they look very nice.
We've been showing Repros in the racks with all the other Parkers at Pheasant Fest and other exhibitions. Won't catch me badmouthing Repros.



My Dad has a 20 and a 28 gauge. I think with single triggers.

[Sam Ogle]

You Father is a lucky man, if your message means they are original Parkers.

Repo: Aka "first to go." Whatcha got?

Sam Ogle

[Mills Morrison]

Nope. They are reproductions. They are still nice guns

[ron belanger]

Just a "babe in the woods" here as far as owning Parkers go...but I do own an original Trojan 20 ga, which a gunsmith has recently, pronounced "shootworthy" and just today, I took delivery on a beautiful, and pristine, DHE Reproduction in 20 ga. with beavertail forend and double triggers.
Since this is just the beginning of my "collector's fever" I am proud to own both, as they each, in their own right are wonderful pieces of work, as well as giving me a long and short glimpse into the history of these fine firearms.
I have a case of RST 2 1/2" 20's due to be delivered tomorrow and a smattering of 2 3/4" modern 20's waiting for the next bright day, when I will assuredly, be at my range letting some lead shot fly, in a glorious, comparison of both...
Perhaps tomorrow! :bigbye:

[Dennis V. Nix]

I think it means REPRO as in reproduction but REPO is used so much I am not 100 % sure. I think I know what he means though. I sure hope someone doesn't repo somebody's repro.

Dennis

[Greg Baehman]

Is a repo the same thing as a repop?

[John Dallas]

Yep

[David Holes]

For all you southerners, a repo is a word used to describe a parker Reproduction. I guess you have to be from Ne. And no thats not New England. Dave

[Mills Morrison]

Part of the reason for starting this thread is that I may have a chance to "repo" my Great Uncle's Parker reproduction, although not for free, and wanted to see what everyone thought. :cool:

[David Holes]

I have yet to shoot a BT 28 guage. Someday I hope to. Bill says they are very nice. I hope to find out. Seems there are 20's for sale alot. I guess it is an affordable way into a small bore Parker. I do like the hand work on an original and the unknown variety in the wood and engraving. 100-125 year old walnut is hard to reproduce. Stamped guns are just stamped guns. The big plus with a reproduction is the barrels. Dave

[Mills Morrison]

I don't quite have the funds for an original 28 gauge and the repros are probably my only hope.

[Rich Anderson]

I have had several Repo's in both 20 & 28. IMHO the 20's are heavy but the 28 is a dream. If you can't pony up 5 figures for a real one the repo will down a bird just as well as an original.

When the repo is still in the field 125 years from now (provided there are fields and birds to use one in) that will tell the tale.

[Greg Baehman]

Gentlemen, at the risk of sounding elitist, can we please stop using the word repo in describing a Parker Reproduction? To my way of thinking it shows a level of disrespect. I'll jump off my soapbox now. :duck:

[Dean Romig]

I always refered to them as "Parker Reproduction by Winchester" and nobody took me to task about it but I eventually allowed myself to sink to the level by which they may be called "Repros" but please take note - I capitalized the "R".

[edgarspencer]

I always refered to them as "Parker Reproduction by Winchester"

You mean the 'Winchester" as in Winchester Reproduction by U.S. Reapeating Arms ?

[Dean Romig]

Now that's sad... Highest bidder I guess.

[Gerry Addison]

I love the Repros but I can certainly attest to the fact that the Claro Walnut is not up to the wood on the original guns, but as has been said here the metal is certainly stronger.

[Rich Anderson]

There not Parkers in the true sense of the word there reproductions so what are we to call them if not repo's? They didn't come up with anything to differentiate the two such as was done with Ithaca Classic Doubles, and the Fox and Win 21 by CSM.

Once a repo always a repo, there good guns and I see nothing derogatory in calling them repo's.

[Dennis V. Nix]

I am sincerely hoping not to start a huge war here and I guess anyone can call them what they want but to me REPO is short for repossession as in repo'ing a vehicle. REPRO is short for reproduction as in reproducing the Parker Brothers shotgun by Winchester. How about calling the guns Winchester made Parker shotguns.

Dennis

[Chuck Heald]

:corn:

[ed good]

mills: the best way to address your question is with another example of repro vs orginial.

i am talking about vintage cars vs repros. they look similar, but they are not the same. if you have never driven the original, then a repro is just fine. however, once you drive the real thing, then you think less of your repro.

it is the same thing with parker shotguns.

[Chris Travinski]

The fit of the parts on the repro's is excellent they're definately well made, but the craftsmanship that goes into an original Parker is lost in translation. Having both in hand, there is no comparison between the feel of an original and a repro, the weigh and ballance are superior in an original.

[Chuck Heald]

I would argue that Mr Skeuse ensured the weight and balance was replicated to the examples of the originals he chose.

The "feel" a gun has is part physical, part mental. How much of each is in the mind of the beholder.

That's the part about these reproductions being relatively new and not an American made gun. They'll never command the awe, in our generations, that the originals will.

[Daryl Corona]

As one who has never owned or shot a repro., I've held them and I agree with Chris. There's something lacking and I can't put my finger on it but for lack of a better term I'll just call it "soul" or maybe character. I think they are great guns but not for me. My question is about the reference to "better steel". In what way is the repro steel better than an original? My 100yr. old steel does pretty well on it's own. Just wondering.

[Chuck Heald]

Daryl,
I agree. No soul. They are essentially new guns. But I like new guns too. I put them in a category with the newer Superposed guns. American design, foreign built.

As for soul, it will come from my hunting of the gun or it will go down the road.

[Chris Travinski]

Don't get me wrong, I have had a few reproductions and I think they are great guns. I'm sure they did their best to replicate the originals but the barrels on the repro are much heavier. I'm sure this is a function of safety, you won't find a repro with .020-.025" (or less) barrel walls, there are only so many ways to get weight off of the front of a gun. It's difficult to describe but trust me, if you can have one of each in hand you'll see the difference.

[Greg Baehman]

I feel real bad for some of youse guys whose Repros don't have any soul---mine do, all of 'em have it...a couple of 'em have it real bad.

I also have an original 12-ga. Parker Bros. DH damascus that they tell me has a lot of soul, too. I haven't found it yet, but I suppose it's there somewhere. Given the opportunity, I would jump at the chance to trade it even-up for any 28-ga. Repro.

[John Dallas]

Aren't Repro's stocked with Claro? Isn't it less dense than American Walnut?

[Chris Travinski]

Daryl,
Your last post made me think about Cabela's, every time I go there they try to sell me a Benelli something or other. They always say they are superior because of the cryogenic tempering, the bores won't scratch or pitt etc. I always laugh to myself, my 1909 DHE has mint bores.

[Kenny Graft]

We Parker types are lucky to have these parker reproductions....No they are not originals or 100% exact!, but that alone does not make them bad or evil. There will never be anymore original parkers made or remade....can't be done. Even if the best craftsman in the world spent the time to make a couple guns to exact spec....they would be so valuable no one would ever enjoy them as shooting guns and would have no use to us! Parker reproductions filled a need for shooting guns that working class sportsman could afford and be proud of. Its been 28 years since that first run of guns hit the feilds....they have proven themselves worthy! Nothing in life is perfect....just the best we can do with what we have. Rejoyce and have fun with them repo's. Personally I spend more time afeild with Parker repro"s than my original parkers.....they are my working guns and man do they work! This past november I took a nice woodcock with a DHE-28 DT-PG-BTF sweet! And a couple times a year I will take one of my original parkers out hunting...like my 26" 1903 O-frame DH-16 that comes in at 5lbs-14oz When hunting the grouse woods with a gun like this and a couple of setters......I can loose track of the day.....it could be 1903 all over again!.....I think this is what we all search for as sportsman, plesures of past and present all in one moment of time....The parker repro's will have their time as well. I have been to Kansas hunting wild birds three times now. I have used a parker repro DHE-16 28" IC/Full for every shot and every bird brought to bag. It does not get any better than this for a man and gun combo. This repro is warm in my hands! Brings back the memeries of Kansas just holding it, yup...them case colors is wearing off fast...(-: Thanks all SXS ohio...life is good!

[ron belanger]

We Parker types are lucky to have these parker reproductions....No they are not originals or 100% exact!, but that alone does not make them bad or evil. There will never be anymore original parkers made or remade....can't be done. Even if the best craftsman in the world spent the time to make a couple guns to exact spec....they would be so valuable no one would ever enjoy them as shooting guns and would have no use to us! Parker reproductions filled a need for shooting guns that working class sportsman could afford and be proud of. Its been 28 years since that first run of guns hit the feilds....they have proven themselves worthy! Nothing in life is perfect....just the best we can do with what we have. Rejoyce and have fun with them repo's. Personally I spend more time afeild with Parker repro"s than my original parkers.....they are my working guns and man do they work! This past november I took a nice woodcock with a DHE-28 DT-PG-BTF sweet! And a couple times a year I will take one of my original parkers out hunting...like my 26" 1903 O-frame DH-16 that comes in at 5lbs-14oz When hunting the grouse woods with a gun like this and a couple of setters......I can loose track of the day.....it could be 1903 all over again!.....I think this is what we all search for as sportsman, plesures of past and present all in one moment of time....The parker repro's will have their time as well. I have been to Kansas hunting wild birds three times now. I have used a parker repro DHE-16 28" IC/Full for every shot and every bird brought to bag. It does not get any better than this for a man and gun combo. This repro is warm in my hands! Brings back the memeries of Kansas just holding it, yup...them case colors is wearing off fast...(-: Thanks all SXS ohio...life is good!




Amen, Brother! Well said! :clap:

[Dennis V. Nix]

Thank you, Kenny. Very well said and it conveys what I think we all look for in a pleasant day afield whether game is harvested or not. Recently I hunted California Valley Quail with my GH 12 gauge. Though I did not even see a bird just the pleasure of carrying the gun brightened my day. Halfway up a steep hill, they didn't seem so steep when I was 25, I would stop to rest and marvel at the swirls of the case coloring, the smallness of the grip, the quality of the engraving or the richness of the wood. What a fulfilling day.

Dennis

[Gerry Addison]

Could not have said it better. I love both the Repro's and the original guns I own. Shoot them both and take them for exactly what they are, nice guns to be used and enjoyed.

[Chuck Heald]

Aren't Repro's stocked with Claro? Isn't it less dense than American Walnut?


John,
Many are stocked with Claro. Maybe most, I dunno. But, there are many stocked in what looks like U.S. westcoast grown English walnut to me. Some also look like Black walnut to me.

I think the source of the wood may have been from the wood company in California, owned (started for the Parker Reproductions?) by the Mr. Skeuse. It seems we covered this subject with Richard Skeuse here and he provided some information on the wood source.

[Joe Bernfeld]

John,
Many are stocked with Claro. Maybe most, I dunno. But, there are many stocked in what looks like U.S. westcoast grown English walnut to me. Some also look like Black walnut to me.

I think the source of the wood may have been from the wood company in California, owned (started for the Parker Reproductions?) by the Mr. Skeuse. It seems we covered this subject with Richard Skeuse here and he provided some information on the wood source.

Calico Hardwoods.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Well I don't own a reproduction, not that they are not good guns but, when I have in my hands a high grade old Parker hammer gun and look at the craftsmanship that went in to making the gun, and taking into account what they had to work with its just not the same. For me I'll take "old Parkers, old dogs, and watermelon wine any time!

[Daryl Corona]

Gary,
I'll bring the old Parkers and the dogs to the Southern. You bring the watermelon wine.
Sounds delicious.

[Sam Casey]

I have owned several of both, new & old, but now own and use only a couple nice Reproductions. I like the modern stock dimensions and the fact that I don't need to be concerned about shooting higher pressure loads.

[Mills Morrison]

I like the old look and feel of the originals. I also shoot well with low pressure loads. Also like the generally lower prices for vintage shooters. Still would not mind having one or two reproductions for shooting modern loads. With a little luck, I will get one or both of my Dad's reproductions.

[Bruce Day]

[quote=Mills Morrison;64488].... Still would not mind having one or two reproductions for shooting modern loads. ..../quote]


If by this comment, you are implying that a person is not able to shoot "modern" loads through an original Parker, that would be in error. All a person needs to do is to look at the Parker service and proof load table in TPS to dispel that notion. There is nothing infirm or lesser about an original Parker. Both vintage and Repros were designed to shoot SAAMI standard service loads, and I argue that applies to damascus barreled guns as well, since Parker did not treat them differently. A person may choose to shoot lesser loads in any gun, after all, who wants to pound his shoulder and gun needlessly, but there is nothing less capable about the barrels on a vintage Parker. In fact, if the reports of Repro stock fractures through the wrist are to be believed, I suggest that it could be argued that Repros are less capable than originals.

Parker provided tables matching gun weight and gauge to load for best shooting; those apply equally to vintage and Repro guns.

[Mills Morrison]

Thanks for the correction. I have a growing collection of Damascus barreled Parkers and enjoy shooting them. Don't quite have the nerve to shoot modern loads in them, but I actually enjoy shooting low pressure RST loads. Something about the low recoil and weight of the Damascus barrels that improves my shooting.

[edgarspencer]

Oh man, first they tell me I can't shoot my damascus guns, and now they tell me I can't shoot 'modern' loads in my steel barreled guns. What's next? I guess I'll just sit on this stump and let the guys with those up and down guns get the birdies.

[Richard Flanders]

I worry more about the wood than the bbls, especially, as Bruce says, on those pesky Reproductions. Trigg had a Repro20 that broke a stock. He sent it off and had a new stock made and on the first test shot it broke clean in half again. Some bad juju going on there somehow. I tailor my loads to the gun and shoot light loads in light guns with thinner stocks and bbls and heavier loads in heavier guns with stout wood and bbls. It's a matter of "it's supposed to be fun" and not an exercise in shoulder punishment. My stout 32" 1883 twist bbl 12ga hammer gun doesn't even burp when digesting old paper 1-1/2oz magnums and the recoil isn't bad at all. My wand-like 26" 6#10oz GHE 12 never gets anything heavier than a lightly loaded 1oz load and we're both much the happier for it and that puppy is deadly on woodcock and ruffies... and chukars...... and pheasants.... and sharptails.

[Peter Clark]

Here is a photo of Parker Reproduction and an original Parker VH in nice shape. They both make me happy.
Below them is a picture of me waiting for doves with an original Parker VHE. Below that is a picture of me with an old departed friend and a Parker Reproduction. I had fun both times and didn't think much about when either gun was made or by whom.
Finally, this is a picture of a cookstove in our kitchen that we use all the time during winter, which lasts 8 months here. My wife and I were once part of a Christmas home tour and a woman on the tour asked me if this stove was a "repo". I told her no it most certainly was not but was made in 1923 and was fully paid for.
:)

[Chuck Heald]

What gauge is that stove?

[Peter Clark]

I don't think it matter since it "fires" whatever I put in it.

[Chuck Heald]

:rotf::bowdown:

[Charles Dawley]

I have only one Parker "Repro" and it is a 28ga gun. From what I have seen, an original will start some where north of 15000.00.....I would never have had the pleasure of having one at that price. Dont get me wrong, I have plenty of Original Parkers, Foxes, Smiths, WC Scotts, JP Sauers etc etc and use them all when I hunt. But, the 28ga has captured my affection and while the Merkels, Aya's and Arreittas I have are wonderful, this is the only way I would be able to have a Parker of any kind in 28

[Mills Morrison]

You are right. I want a Parker 28 and a reproduction is the only way I will be able to afford one. My favorite gun in my collection is a Parker Trojan 20, although I have higher grades.

[Charles Dawley]

My favorite (not to stray to far from the focus of the thread) is a Parker VH O frame 20ga which has been completely redone and is a seductive looking thing. It even opens and closes as if new....so, a face lift is always an option:)

[Mills Morrison]

Pretty is as pretty does

[Chuck Heald]

I'm in the boat with you guys that can't afford and/or justify an original Parker of similar grade/gauge, but can acquire a reproduction within the scope of my budget. I think this is exactly what Tom Skeuse envisioned.

I also have some redone vintage guns that I really enjoy. I bought most of them relatively cheaply because of their poor and inoperable condition.