RST powder in their lite 2 7/8" 10 ga.

[jim garrett]

Does anyone know what powder RST uses in their lite 1 1/8-1 1/4 lite 10 gauge loads? It is approx. 25 grains of a very small flat spherical powder. Also, anyone know what powder they use in their lite 2 1/2" 20 gauge loads. It is also a very small flat spherical powder?

[Dave Suponski]

I would think that the powder RST uses in their loads would be proprietary.

[Mark Ouellette]

Manufactures have access to powders and components that are often not available to reloaders.

[jim garrett]

The powder could well be proprietary; however, with the cost of R&D for powder development I would be surprised if RST is the only market for the powder manufacturer. It may well be a powder that is no longer in production due to a more modern or cleaner version being marketed but neither of the two powders look like what I would envision as a shotgun powder.

[jim garrett]

I use Clays exclusively for Sporting Clays practice and also Universal Clays for small gauge. If you have a good low pressure for 2 7/8' 10 ga., I will drop it back at least 10%in load develop[ment and try it. Thanks Jim Garrett

[Pete Lester]

The new Remington 10 gauge hull with a plastic base wad does not work for me, the primer will not stay in the primer pocket.

Have you tried loading them with Fiocchi 616 (209 Type) primers? They are .004 larger than Win, Rem and Federal primers. They are on the cool side of primer spectrum close to Rem STS.

[CraigThompson]

Pictures of how to cut off once fired 10 gauge hulls to make SHORT 10 gauge hulls for reloading for Parkers.


http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h309/minescsm/MVC-221S.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h309/minescsm/MVC-211S.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h309/minescsm/MVC-225S.jpg



I made myself a wooden block to do the same thing . that way I can use a bandsaw to cut them and not worry about knicking the blade .

[Dave Purnell]

Another simple jig for cutting hulls.

[E Robert Fabian]

Here is one.

[Richard Flanders]

Is that Fiocchi 616 primer a metric primer? I've been looking at how to get metric primers to use in Rio hulls. I can buy them from BPI but you can't ship them to Alaska.

[Tom Carter]

Richard, Please check your PM's. Tom

[Paul Harm]

I shoot a 2 5/8 Parker 10. A single edge razor can be used to cut shells - they're cheap. Just stick it in the dowel at about a 20 degree angle. Any load that works in a longer shell will work - there's just less room for shot and or wads. I like the paper wads - it's easier to adjust the wad height. In the Remington hull, the Cheddite primer works well for me. Why some people think you'd need less powder for a short shell is be on me - the volume of where the powder is has not been reduced. The available volume for shot or wads has been reduced. You won't raise pressure. Paul

[Pete Lester]

I shoot a 2 5/8 Parker 10. A single edge razor can be used to cut shells - they're cheap. Just stick it in the dowel at about a 20 degree angle. Any load that works in a longer shell will work - there's just less room for shot and or wads. I like the paper wads - it's easier to adjust the wad height. In the Remington hull, the Cheddite primer works well for me. Why some people think you'd need less powder for a short shell is be on me - the volume of where the powder is has not been reduced. The available volume for shot or wads has been reduced. You won't raise pressure. Paul

If that is the case and I believe it is this would be a nice load for composite barrel 10's using the Rem hull.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipePrint.aspx?shotype=&weight=1.25&weightdis=1+1%2f4&shellid=488&gtypeid=3&gauge=10&lid=19

[Paul Harm]

Pete, just my personal preference, 1265fps is unnecessary. Maybe that load is necessary for a clean burn. I'd try about 1.5 to 2 grains less - you'd have a little less FPS but would also lower the pressure. A lower velocity would mean less recoil. Shot that starts out faster slows down quicker so at any distance you haven't really gained a whole lot. A lower pressure also means less shot defromation. That equals better patterns. I have a IMR manual in front of me -in one load they have from 14.5 to 18.5 grs to give 1150 to 1325 FPS. Pressures go from 5,700 to 8,300. Good luck - Paul

[charlie cleveland]

paul what year of manual or edition is this IMR manuel...sounds like an interesting manual...i read this load with much interest i agree with pete this should be a very good load in composite barrel guns...plus it gives us one more loading for the short ten even though the original loading was for the 3 1/2 inch shell....this is the lightest load of lead shot ive ever seen for the three and ahalf inch shell charlie

[Pete Lester]

Pete, just my personal preference, 1265fps is unnecessary. Maybe that load is necessary for a clean burn. I'd try about 1.5 to 2 grains less - you'd have a little less FPS but would also lower the pressure. A lower velocity would mean less recoil. Shot that starts out faster slows down quicker so at any distance you haven't really gained a whole lot. A lower pressure also means less shot defromation. That equals better patterns. I have a IMR manual in front of me -in one load they have from 14.5 to 18.5 grs to give 1150 to 1325 FPS. Pressures go from 5,700 to 8,300. Good luck - Paul

I agree with you Paul 100% on the speed being unneeded. I already went ahead and loaded some shells with 29 gr of Unique in the Federal hull with Fio primer. Had a good report, recoil felt normal, looked to be burning clean and killed a couple of crows.

What load/gauge and powder are you looking at in regard to that 14.5 to 18.5grains?

[Bill Murphy]

If you look at the fine print on that load, you will see that they tell you to use 6, yes, six, .135 card wads to fill the shell. In addition, it is an unbalanced load if you reduce the powder. Unique is not the powder to use in a 1 1/4 ounce ten gauge load if you want sensible velocities. You don't reduce the powder charge in a 7500 psi load to reduce velocity. You go to a faster powder in order to reduce velocity and at the same time keep pressures up. If you take this load and reduce the powder charge, the pressure will go through the floor and you will get squibs and bloopers, especially in cold weather. Read the "burn rate chart" to decide what powder you should or should not use. If you need to reduce the velocity in this 1265 fps Unique load, you should not reduce the powder charge, you should go to a faster powder, like Green Dot if you choose to use an Alliant product.

[Pete Lester]

Another Unique load comes from BPI. Fed hull cut to 2 7/8", Fed 209A primer, 30 gr Unique, x10x, VP100 wad, 1/4" filler, 1 1/4 ounce lead shot, rolled crimp. Velocity 1130, pressure 7070. Fed209A increases pressure over Win and CCI but roll crimp reduces pressure.

Unique is a little faster than SR7625 which has given good service in the short ten.

http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html

Bill have you had a high rate of squib/bloopers with Unique and 1 1/4 10ga loads?

[Bill Murphy]

No, I haven't suffered bloopers, but I also haven't used the load. However, I do not think it is prudent reloading technique to take a very low pressure load and reduce the powder charge by a couple of grains of powder or to reduce shot weight without pressure testing. No, I don't think the gun is going to blow up, but performance and consistency may suffer without the shooter being aware of it. Not all bad loads sound bad. Unique is just too slow a powder to use in low velocity 1 1/4 ounce loads in a big ten gauge hole.

[Paul Harm]

Bill, seems we have a difference of opnion. My IMR reloaders guide is from 2004 and in it for every powder there are 4 different powder loads when useing the same of everything else. They change 3 to 4 grains with velocity and pressures going up or down. With 21grs of PB - Rem primer - CB-1100 wad and 1 oz of shot the pressure is 3800 at 1100fps. Up that to 25grs and we get 5600psi and 1250FPS. I don't think 7500PSI is a really low pressure load that couldn't be taken down a bit. I haven't shot the one quoted earlier, but I have to believe there's a bit of felt recoil. If useing all the same components and powder is reduced a grain or two the velocity/pressure/ and recoil will go down. I noticed Alliant doesn't give more than one formula per load so I emailed them. Let everyone know what their reply is. Paul

[Bill Murphy]

Paul, I'm not implying that I wouldn't reduce the powder charge of a 7500 psi load and shoot it. I'm saying I wouldn't reduce the powder charge of a 7500 psi load and recommend it to a new reloader without telling him of the possible problems that could be encountered.

[Paul Harm]

Bill, you are correct. Usually when going too light one will get a dirty barrel and then the bloopers, more so when it gets colder outside. Those loads I gave were for 12ga. For 10ga IMR shows three 2oz loads in a Fed hull, all different and four 2oz loads in a Rem hull all different. All are at 10,800PSI - a bit more than we're looking for. Paul

[Pete Lester]

Bill & Paul, remember most reloaders using MEC equipment will refer to the MEC bushing chart to select the proper bushing for the powder and amount they want to use. MEC bushings almost always drop a grain or two lighter than advertised in the bushing chart. Many people are shooting lighter powder charges than they think they are.

[Mark Ouellette]

Pete,

Good point but every reloader needs to weigh their powder and shot charges at the start and at intervals during loading.

Mark

[Paul Harm]

Mec uses a single stage press for bushing sizes. With it the bar is under the powder bottle while you're crimping, depriming, and priming which allows the bushing to fill more than a progressive press where the bar is only momentarily under the powder bottle. You need to go up one bushing size if useing a progressive press. That's why, as Mark said, weigh all you loads. I use a digital scale [ about $35 ] and an adjustable bar [ about $35 ] . No more bushing and you can really dial in a load. Because humidity can change powder readings, I usually weigh once and let it go at that. Right now for clays I'm shooting a 24gm load [ 361grs or between 3/4 and 7/8 oz ]. Cheap on the wallet, easy on the arm, and breaks clays out to 50 yds. Paul

[Bill Murphy]

Paul, if I were reading through the IMR manual and found a 3800 PSI recommended load, as you did, I would either trash the manual or use my reloading knowledge to reject the load as a bad load. The manuals are full of loads that will not blow up a gun but are terrible loads. We should learn enough about the principles of reloading to recognize these bad loads.

[Paul Harm]

And the principles are ? In 12ga for the 24gm load - this is less than 7/8oz, the International load- there are 9 loads for Federal shells, 4 for the Winchester shell, and 2 for the Remington shell all 3000 to under 4000psi. For 1oz loads in the 4 to 5000 range - Fed there are 14, Win - 10, and Rem- 3. Am I going to throw out an IMR reloaders guide - NO. If one wants to cycle an auto loader you'd go around 9500 and up and not worry if you're in the 10 to 11,000 range. I don't hunt anymore - just shoot clays. So I'm not worried if a shell sounds a bit light. They still break clay pigeons out to 50yds. 1150fps with under 1oz loads are easy on the gun, easy on the shoulder, and light on the wallet. I load for the wife, daughter, granddaughter, and myself from 30 to 40 boxes a week for the past 5 or 6 years with no problem. Perhaps you could point out my foolish ways. Paul

[Paul Harm]

Alliant got back with me on my question about going lighter in the 10ga load. He said in the cold weather you may notice some light sounding shots. I know the loads we see are tested around 70 to 80 degrees and if shells are left out in the cold your velocity and pressures will go down. So it sounds like if the load is for hunting in cool weather you won't want to reduce it. Paul

[John Campbell]

Mr. Forge:
If you are curious as to the pressure and velocity of your 10-bore loads, just send some to Tom Armbrust. When he gets time, he will test them for you professionally. He charges $5 a shot and a 5-shot minimum. You can find his site on the web at http://www.armbrust.acf2.org.

Best, Kensal

[Paul Harm]

Kensal, please, it's Paul. I know Tom - he tested some loads that I mistakenly made and blew up a Remington damascus gun. That one took 22,500psi on the forth shot. I thought I was loading Pyrodex and was really useing PB [ 94grs ]. I should say my low pressure loads come from a target shooters side. All you guys reloading for hunting might or would have different ideas about pressure/FPS. I don't think of that sometimes,as can be seen with some of the discussions with Bill, and I'm sorry if I've offended you. I like everyone on this site and I'll try to keep it on the lighter side from now on. Paul

[charlie cleveland]

paul that sure is a lot of reloading...i wish my wife were into shooting but is not...but my grand daughter is beginning to shoot a little shes still in that stage of being scared it will kick....she just enrolled into a bow and arrow class thats being taught in school...im glad of this from here maybe we will get into the double barrels... whos the best shot my moneys on the young eyes.... charlie

[Paul Harm]

The granddaughter is good - but at this time experience and cunning is beating good eyes and quick reactions. She's 21, just needs to shoot more. I taught her on a longbow. Her stepfather bought her one of those compound things and she won't shoot it. She also shots a real muzzleloader - flintlock, not the inline he also bought her. He must be pissed at me, but hell, you gotta bring em up right. Now, if I can just get her to shoot SxS's and not that auto she bought. Guess I failed in the department. Paul