J. Bott & Son London (African Paradox)

[Jack Cronkhite]

Anybody know about such a gun?

4" chambers. Shot and/or paradox? cartridge. Haven't had in hand. I understand the last few inches of the muzzle are rifled to give the spin to a bullet before it exits the barrel. Each blade site is marked for specific yardage. If one is just shooting birds, then shot shells in both barrels. If one is just out for deer, a bullet in both barrels. If out for deer and birds in the same habitat, a bullet in one and shot in the other. Different for sure.

Jack

[Rick Losey]

Holland & Holland made many Pardox guns. I've not heard of this maker, but looks like a really nice gun, can you repair the crack in the stock? What does it weigh?

I believe there have been articles in Double Gun Journal about the concept of a paradox gun.

[Jack Cronkhite]

Haven't found info about the maker. Wood issues may require a pro. Said to be tight with good bores. I had decided no more fixer-uppers and then this arrives in my email. Its a bit tempting just because it is unusual. I may resist.

Did stumble onto this advertisement

From Newspaper THE ARGUS December 1882 LINK (http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11562704?searchTerm=Andrew+Cuming+Flemming)

GEMMELL, TUCKETT, and Co. have received Instructions to SELL by AUCTION, at their room, 49 CollIns Street west, on Monday, 13th December at eleven o'clock,

Splendid hammer gun, by Wm. Powell and Son, patent pend action, with Anson and Deely lock and cocking arrangement ; one barrel choke bore.

Very fine hammerless gun, by Bussoy and Co., In case, with fittings complete

Double breech-loadlng gun, by Mortimer, tip action Do do, by Beckwith .

Snider rifle,

rifle by J. Bott and Son,

revolver,

All Terms-Cash.

[Rick Losey]

maybe some kind soul with access to Geoffrey Boothroyd's makers books will chime in.

If there is any place you will find info on small little known makers or iron mongers that is where it will be.

yeah - I say the same things about projects - I count myself lucky when am i try to decide between two they get snapped up by someone else :rotf:

[Jack Cronkhite]

...yeah - I say the same things about projects - I count myself lucky when am i try to decide between two they get snapped up by someone else :rotf:

Agreed. I was debating between a Smith Hammergun and a Baker. Smith went. Baker still there, then this came along. If I dither long enough, someone else will have all the fun. :rolleyes:

[Richard Flanders]

Interesting gun Jack. Maybe you should get it... you never know when a hungry Tyrannosaurus Rex might come into your yard!

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Jack,

If the price is reasonable you should pick that up. A very interesting gun.

DLH

[Rick Losey]

Jack,

If the price is reasonable you should pick that up. A very interesting gun.

DLH

cool - I thought we were just going to be commenting on the gun -

not spending Jack's money :corn:

go for it Jack :rotf:

[Jack Cronkhite]

Soo... if I get it, can I then spend some of your guys $$ for you when next you dither???????? Would you all jump in the high hundreds but under 1K????

[Rick Losey]

Soo... if I get it, can I then spend some of your guys $$ for you when next you dither???????? Would you all jump in the high hundreds but under 1K????

A paradox under a grand, that is very tempting as you know. Most of the very few paradox guns i have seen were H&H - and not cheap. I don't know the maker (what are the proofs? Birmingham or London) but it looks like a quality piece.

if I were going to pop on it ( i did not go to the local show last weekend to avoid temptation)

I assume you would need to find brass and handload.

is it where you can give it a good inspection?

my decision points would be

what are the bores like? I am of the camp that they matter the most. (that doesn't keep me from kicking my self from passing on some)

and is the stock repairable (i would make the effort to save that one if it could be) or is a replacement needed, that is not a simple duplicator process. I have inletted flintlocks and I truly admire the quality of work on even mid class British guns with sidelocks or backlocks.

man I do like that piece

[Jack Cronkhite]

Rick: Too far away to have in hand. I'll ask a few more dithering questions while somebody else just buys it. If at the end of dithering, it is still available, I may have to bring it home. Nice thing about dithering, if I don't get it, I don't care all that much. If I cared, it would already be here. :) There was a time, pre PGCA, when I was quite content with my few (well less than 20) hunting irons tucked safely away between seasons. I have divested of a mere 3 of those but my new total number is starting to seem silly. I have become an accumulator with a couple of nice pieces but mostly very ordinary. This paradox gun poses my own paradox. What to do. What to do.

[Rick Losey]

Birmingham proof house

http://proofmarks.tripod.com/Englishproofs/birmin39.jpg

"These are the proof marks used for choked-bored barrels between the years 1875-1887"

not that i would see it an an issue, just curious


this would be a nice photo trail as the work progresses

[Bob Brown]

Jack, if you don't want it I'll probably take it, assuming it is tight and the bores are in good shape. James Bott was actually a Birmingham maker in spite of the London on the barrels. From 1853 to 1890 it was just Mr. Bott at 67 Weaman Street. When it was "and son" from 1891 to 1900 they were at 124 1/2 Steelhouse Lane.

[Jeff Mayhew]

Jack, if you don't want it I'll probably take it, assuming it is tight and the bores are in good shape. James Bott was actually a Birmingham maker in spite of the London on the barrels. From 1853 to 1890 it was just Mr. Bott at 67 Weaman Street. When it was "and son" from 1891 to 1900 they were at 124 1/2 Steelhouse Lane.

How does one get a chance to bid on this gun?

[Jack Cronkhite]

Touched base with a bunch of questions but an offer has been accepted. So it will be on its way to a new home.

Cheers,
Jack

[Bob Brown]

I'm kind of glad I dithered on it too. It was very unusual and interesting, but it will take some work. Too many project guns and not enough time. I hope the person that picked it up gets it fixed up and posts some pictures of it somewhere.

[Jack Cronkhite]

If someone here picked it up, GB has one paradox 12 bore ball cartridge with 3 days left. Started at .01 and is now 19.75 CLICK (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=268581482)