J.P. Sauer Krupp Steel

[David Long]

I was at a small gunshow this weekend and picked up a J.P. Sauer drilling in 16ga. I'm not sure the rifle caliber yet but, will find out this week. This gun is in unbelievable condition. The breakdown lever is under the trigger gaurd. It has side plates and hammers. Flip up site on the rib. And also has a peep site on the back tang. I will try to post some pictures as soon as I can. Bores are shiny as new, rifle barrel looks like new. Has Krupp steel barrels. I want to take it rabbit hunting Wednesday. Do you guys think it would be safe to shoot? And, should I use 2 1/2 inch shells?
Thanks for any help,
David

[Rick Losey]

shiny bores are great if they do not result from a honing. Krupp steel is fine steel. You may find a date code one the water table for when it was made.

but really safe to shoot requires a proper inspection

pictures please, small show? Rochester?

[David Long]

It was a bring back from the mans dad after WW2 said it was keep in a cedar closet i will try to post some pic

[Rick Losey]

It was a bring back from the mans dad after WW2 said it was keep in a cedar closet i will try to post some pic

I have seen several good Sauer & Sohn made in Shul recently, many with a similar provenance. there are treasures yet to be uncovered out there.

[Richard Flanders]

Look on the Safari Outfitters site. They have some incredible Sauers. I doubt you can go wrong buying one. They are seriously undervalued in my book.

[edgarspencer]

The date will be stamped in a 3 digit number on the rifle barrel, on the very bottom, beneath the fore end. Also, the rifle caliber should be stamped. Under lever latches are anywhere from the late 1800ss to 1920ish. The most common rifle calibers of early drillings were straight tapered cartridges like 6.5x48mm. From about 1915 on, it was the 8mm bottle neck mauser or the straight cased 9.3mm (9.3x72mm was the most common) Lass common, but VERY desireable, is the metric equivalent of 25-35 win, something like 5.6x 52 I think. I've had drillings in .22 hornet all the way up to 30-06.
If the barrel is staamped 7.99mm it is likely 8x57JRS (.323"), if it says 7.8mm, it is likely 8x57JR (.318") Any 8mm drilling of the vintage of yours should have the bored slugged, as it's possible to shoot the larger bullet in guns intended for .318" causing very high pressures. With the exception of the early tapered cartridges, most of the loaded ammo is again available, but cases for all of them are available.

[Richard Flanders]

Here's a nice looking Sauer from the SO site. There's also a "German" 16 ga on there for $2950 that is a stunning piece of craftsmanship. Looks like a $75,000 gun. Who wouldn't love to have this gun on the rack, eh? These nice old Sauers owe no one an apology. Looking forward to pics of your drilling David.

[charlie cleveland]

i agree with richard the sauers are a work of art....even if you have a early drilling with obsolete bore you can make or have made new brass and still shoot these fine old guns...the drilling i have is 16 by 16 7x57 r its been scoped with quick detachable mounts but they just dont look as nice configured this way...the drilling is probably most overlooked and under priced gun in the world.... charlie

[edgarspencer]

Apart from the obvious high grade engraving, that's a rare Sauer, as it has intercepting sears.

[John Mazza]

It's safe to say that low pressure 2 1/2" shells (RST) are the way to go, as long as the gun checks out first...

I shoot RST 7/8 ounce loads for small game in my hammer drilling (in 16 x 16 x 9.3x72R) - proofed in 1904. Shotgun bore look like hell, but she's a good shooter. (All I need is to find the right rifle load that will shoot to point of aim...)

[Bill Murphy]

My Sauer hammer driller is 16X16X11.15X65. 2 1/2" .410s shoot wonderfully out of the rifle barrel, so it is quite handy in the field. A three barrel shotgun!

[John Mazza]

I really enjoy drillings. 200 and 245 grain cast bullets shot high (with the 245's hitting higher than the 200's), so I'll be trying 180's as soon as I get them. It would be a thrill to get a deer with this gun !

[edgarspencer]

True. Most likely, the chamber length will be stamped 65mm (2 9/16") Several of mine are 70mm, but I still only shoot AA, or other low brass Upland type loads. Both of my 20ga are 70mm
I have plenty of 9.3x72 and have found that RWS, Norma and DWM all shoot right where I want them. All of these are jacketed factory loads, but early rounded rifling is intended for lead. The only commercial molds are for 250 grains. I have cut them down to 185 grain. There are several jacketed .366 bullets available, and are all too heavy for 9.3x72. (They're really for 9.3x57, or 9.3x74) There is (Woodleigh maybe) a 185 grain jacketed SP.

[edgarspencer]

My Sauer hammer driller is 16X16X11.15X65. 2 1/2" .410s shoot wonderfully out of the rifle barrel, so it is quite handy in the field. A three barrel shotgun!
I had a Sauer sidelock chambered the 10.75 something. I shot .410s and .44-40 It was a Dreileufer (side lever cocked the rifle) 2nd gun I ever bought from Gary Herman, ca.1972

Bill, I'm pretty sure I still have some 11.15. Yours if you want it.

[E Robert Fabian]

I'm looking for some help finding a Drilling in 16 ga barrels 26" or longer with a user friendly rifle caliber if anyone runs across one.
Thanks Bob

[Rick Losey]

Apart from the obvious high grade engraving, that's a rare Sauer, as it has intercepting sears.

yes, but it was missing the Setter :rotf:
and the cocking indicators

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/setterw/Sauerright.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/setterw/Sauerleft.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/setterw/Sauerbottom.jpg

[David Long]

I am trying to get pictures on here there is a crown at the at breech end on the shotgun barrels there is crown with a U n2g schp 27g bl 16 on the flates on the rifle it has KMG 8,9 m/m 72 6.36 557crown with a U 1g8/9 Thanks

[David Long]

C:\Documents and Settings\HP_Administrator.YOUR-4DACD0EA75\My Documents\My Pictures\J.P. Sauer Drilling

[Rick Losey]

C:\Documents and Settings\HP_Administrator.YOUR-4DACD0EA75\My Documents\My Pictures\J.P. Sauer Drilling

David is that on your C drive?

you need to first load to a picture hosting site such as Photobucket

check your PM's

[edgarspencer]

8,9mm is the nominal bore (inside the rifling)So it is likely a 9.3mm cartridge. 6.36 is the date of manufacture, June 1936. The U is the proofhouse, and the rest are charge weights. It was the German and Austrain practice to give weights in grams, not grains.

[David Long]

What length shot gun shells do you think it would take? Thanks so much for your help.

[edgarspencer]

Unless you've missed a 70mm somewhere, assume, and don't go over 2 1/2" till you have the chambers measured. 65mm was the norm, and they frequently were not marked until 70mm cartridges became popular.

[Rick Losey]

David's drilling pics

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/setterw/Davids%20drilling/IMAG17431.jpg?t=1326159609

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/setterw/Davids%20drilling/IMAG17541.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/setterw/Davids%20drilling/IMAG17531.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/setterw/Davids%20drilling/IMAG17491.jpg?t=1326159709
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/setterw/Davids%20drilling/IMAG17481.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/setterw/Davids%20drilling/IMAG17461.jpg?t=1326159649
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/setterw/Davids%20drilling/IMAG17451.jpg


my thoughts -- I LIKE IT :)
are the bores as good as the outside?

[David Long]

Bores look like New and Thank you very much for the help

[Rick Losey]

and looking a little closer, in that last pic - I see a travel limit screw for use with the rifle barrel.

now all you need is a good old piece of German glass and claw mounts.

[David Long]

What do you guys think its worth

[edgarspencer]

Somehow, I missed it when you posted the stampings, but saw the '72' in the photo. So, I'm pretty sure you have a 9.3x72R chanmber. That's one of the most common. I have a few drillings, a double rifle and a stalking single shot in that caliber. It's ballistically about a 30-30, but a lot more impressive looking.

[Richard Flanders]

I see and 8,9xx, maybe the xx=m/m? then 72 then 6,88 maybe? then 557. I sure wouldn't know what they mean. That's a lot of stampings. Nice gun. Drillings have just never caught on in the US. They're just as useful for a bird/deer hunt here as in Europe.

[Steve McCarty]

I have a friend who owns a Vierling. It is a double in 20 gauge, then 30/40 Krag and .22 Auto. It is like new. He paid $5,000 for it from ol'Dangerous Dave Cunningham. Bout 20 years ago Winchester made a short run of 22 auto ammo. This guy bought a brick. A lifetime's supply.

[CraigThompson]

I had a Sauer sidelock chambered the 10.75 something. I shot .410s and .44-40 It was a Dreileufer (side lever cocked the rifle) 2nd gun I ever bought from Gary Herman, ca.1972



I have a hammer drilling made by Kettner or Kerner I cannot remmember which without digging it out of the safe . But mine's 16 Sxs with a rifle barrel in 10.75x65R Collath . This is nothing more then the 444 case with a shaving on top .

I've yet to fire mine but if I remmember correctly the cartridge was a low pressure round shooting lead bullets of approx 200 grains .

I'll get around to it soon hopefully .

[Bill Murphy]

Edgar, I would love to have some 11.15 if you care to part with them. I have not seen one before. I will PM.

[CraigThompson]

I have a hammer drilling made by Kettner or Kerner I cannot remmember which without digging it out of the safe . But mine's 16 Sxs with a rifle barrel in 10.75x65R Collath . This is nothing more then the 444 case with a shaving on top .

I've yet to fire mine but if I remmember correctly the cartridge was a low pressure round shooting lead bullets of approx 200 grains .

I'll get around to it soon hopefully .

Thru further research in the 10.75x65R Collath round I have found a better alternative . In actuality the 444 case will work but it's a hair short . The better alternative is to get new 405 WIN brass a set of CH4D dies and make the correct length brass ! If I'm not mistaken 405 brass is maybe 2/100's over length . So an easy trim job and runnign them thru the 10.75 expander and you ready to load . I typically size bullets for the 444 at .432" but the 10.75x65R Collath is supposedly a .424" . And again thats not a great problem I can run the same 200-225 grain bullets thru a .427" or .429" die and be fine with air cooled wheelweight alloy .

[Fred Preston]

I made brass cases for my .410 by buying a box of Hornady 9.3x74R brass from Cabelas and fire forming them in the .410. They are just a hair short of 3" when completed. Might be just what you need for your 10.75x65R.

[CraigThompson]

I made brass cases for my .410 by buying a box of Hornady 9.3x74R brass from Cabelas and fire forming them in the .410. They are just a hair short of 3" when completed. Might be just what you need for your 10.75x65R.

I was reading an edition of "Cartridges of the World" and they claimed 405 WCF was the best and easiest choice . And since Hornady makes that brass also . And looks as if the 9.3x74R is gonna need a bit more trimming . Also a bit more opening since it's .366 caliber and the 405 is .405 that needs to come open to about .422" or so .

[edgarspencer]

I made brass cases for my .410 by buying a box of Hornady 9.3x74R brass from Cabelas and fire forming them in the .410. They are just a hair short of 3" when completed. Might be just what you need for your 10.75x65R.

Or you could buy .410 brass.

[Bill Murphy]

Edgar, I received your wonderful cartridges today. I put them into my great Sauer driller and they fit just great. They are some beautiful cartridges. Now I have some incentive to drive out the hard cast lead bullet that I drove into the forcing cone with the intent of finding out the true bore diameter. I am not much of a rifle guy and I didn't understand that there were hard cast and soft cast bullets. I have not looked at the Sauer for a few months, and today I realize that this could be my "do all" woods gun. It has just wonderful barrel blue wear on the left barrel and sling wear ahead of the front swivel that I have not seen before. Most guns have "abuse wear" that can't be explained. This gun shows no abuse whatever except a poor repair of a forend crack.