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Mark Landskov
12-17-2011, 03:37 PM
Hoot Mon!
I have had a hankering for a repeating shotgun for some time now, and just ordered this nice Marlin. It is a 'Standard Model A Grade' in 12 gauge. It was made prior to January of 1899. The next version had a slide release button and was actually marked 'Model 1898'. This will be my 3rd 'Standard'. They are very well made and will cycle shells from 2" to 2-5/8". RST or Polywad 2-1/2" shells will be perfect for this gun. Cheers!

Jeff Mayhew
12-17-2011, 06:03 PM
It's beautiful! Really like the color of the metal. I have a few old Colt revolvers that have that wonderful soft brown-silver patina.

Mark Landskov
12-17-2011, 06:20 PM
Thanks, Jeff. There are few moving parts on this particular model. The 1898 added a few more in the way of safety devices. The 'Standard' has a secondary sear that holds the hammer until the tilting breech block/wedge is in place. If this piece is missing or stuck, the gun will fire with the breech unlocked. In order to unlock the action, the firing pin must be pushed all the way in. Marlin repeaters have a bad reputation as being unsafe to fire. If they are not maintained properly, the safety devices will not function and allow the gun to fire out of battery. The quality is superb 19th century Marlin all the way. I prefer this model due to the lack of extra parts. I kept my others scrupulously cleaned and the incorporated safety features worked flawlessly. Unlike my first two 'Standards' this gun is all original, right down to the buttplate. I had a 'C' grade that was engraved and had gorgeous wood. Shoulda kept it!

Steve McCarty
12-26-2011, 03:16 PM
I too, have read that these old Marlin pumps can be dangerous. But I sure like your gun. I've got a Win 97 that looks about the same. I'll have to make a picture of it. I would rather have an old pump than a new one. I just like old pump shotguns.

Mark Landskov
12-26-2011, 08:06 PM
Thanks, Steve. The secondary sear is in place on my gun, but does not function reliably. I am sure it is gummed up. I made it work a few times, but it should be fine after I break the gun down for a thorough cleaning and inspection.

Steve McCarty
12-27-2011, 02:09 PM
Thanks, Steve. The secondary sear is in place on my gun, but does not function reliably. I am sure it is gummed up. I made it work a few times, but it should be fine after I break the gun down for a thorough cleaning and inspection.

I took my GH to Kearcher the Great because it would not cock on opening. He took off the plates and fixed it saying that the grease in there had turned to something like concrete. I think they used bearing grease in those days...some do today. So I agree that the old guns need to be opened up and cleaned out.

alan kirchner
01-03-2012, 07:06 PM
I have the later gun with the push button release and it is a model C needs a new forend. I am going to run off a new one through my duplacator next week

Jim DiSpagno
01-03-2012, 09:10 PM
I have an engraved model that is for sale. The gun is with Gerry Andrews now and functions flawlessly. Very pretty wood and straight stock Contact Gerry through this forum for price and details Thanks, Jim

Mark Landskov
01-03-2012, 11:12 PM
I wish I had kept my 'C' Grade. The engraving was tastefully done and the wood had nice figure. The 'D' Grade Standard Gun and Model 1898 both had a Damascus barrel and more engraving. At least my 1905 Marlin catalog showed Damascus. When they discontinued that option I do not know.

Mark Landskov
07-22-2012, 01:47 PM
I tried the Marlin today with some RST 2-1/2" Maxi Lites. It functioned flawlessly and the hulls did not exhibit any signs of excessive headspace. Soon, I should have another barrel for it....a 26" version with a modified choke.

calvin humburg
07-22-2012, 02:11 PM
Hey it's got a hammer so it's cool!!!

Steve McCarty
07-22-2012, 04:05 PM
Here is my hammer gun. [why is the print so small?]http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/GermVMA211/Shotguns/Shotguns002-1.jpg


I cannot recall when this 97 was made, but I think it is a lateish gun. It has the button on the right side of the receiver which I think was an improvement on the original design.

I cannot hit anything with this gun, so it doesn't fit me well, but it has such a nice plum color and it does work well that I'll keep it. I'd like to restock it, but it's either that or my new Rolls Royce.

These old Winchesters have a lot of parts that must have been hand fitted and it clicks and clacks when you work the action and the bottom falls out! Some of these were damascus I think. In their day they were extremely popular and beat out the Marlin and Spencer. Those Marlins are nice looking guns tho. I have only seen one or two Spencers.

Craig Parker
07-22-2012, 04:31 PM
2nd down w/ chome receiver which is how I found it, been thinking about adding some engraving too it, 2 16's and 2-12's and a M12 thrown in. CJP

Steve McCarty
07-22-2012, 06:24 PM
2nd down w/ chome receiver which is how I found it, been thinking about adding some engraving too it, 2 16's and 2-12's and a M12 thrown in. CJP

Nice old Winchesters! How well do you shoot the 97's? I haven't shot mine for a decade or so since the last time I shot it I didn't do well with it. I'll have to try it again. It is a long barreled scamp and the stock is tight.

Are the 16's on a smaller frame than the 12? I am a big fan of the 16 and while shells can be difficult to find, the old girl refuses to die. My model 12 16 may have short chambers. I read that some did/do. I've also read that the ejection port has to be open to allow the longer shell to pass through. Is that true?

Actually I don't mind shooting the short shell, I think RWS loads them.

Steve McCarty
07-22-2012, 06:43 PM
Craig: that Model 12 is a beauty! Looks like new. I just bought a 1962 Model 12 with a 28" modified tube. The gun is absolutely new. Paid $465 and think I did well. I just got the gun, haven't shot it yet.

I now own several different kinds of pump shotguns, two Ithaca model 37s, a Rem 870, a slew of Model 12's, a 1300 and that old 97. So which is best? Truthfully, I think the Model 37 in 16 is the king of the hill. Mine is an old gun so I can't change out the barrel, but it is a modified so who cares? I do not want to thread it for choke tubes. I did that to the 37 12 gauge and it works fine. A model 37 is a darn nice pump shotgun, light and fast and they deposit the empties at your feet.

Ithaca is back in biz making the 37. Spendy tho. They have stopped making the 16, which is a shame.

Fred Preston
07-22-2012, 10:43 PM
Mine was made in 1919; no take down. Winchester's site will let you know when your gun was made by its SN.

Steve McCarty
07-22-2012, 11:17 PM
Mine was made in 1919; no take down. Winchester's site will let you know when your gun was made by its SN.

Nice shotgun. Did it come with that wonderful stock?

I have looked up the date of my 97, but have forgotten it. Win stopped making them around 1952 if memory serves.

In the 70's and 80's I hunted ducks with a fellow who shot nothing but his 97. Then steel and he stopped hunting, then he died. He could really handle his old 97.

The only thing about the gun that bothers me is the possibility of skinning the top of one's thumb when the action opens up. Some guys put their shooting thumb along the side like some do when shooting a Garand.

Craig Parker
07-24-2012, 10:24 PM
Thanks Steve, The M12 is 1925 30" Full w Simmons vent rib which shoots well. The 16's I have never shot, sad I know but will get too it. Frame size runs same as 12's to me w/ one being 28" F and other 26" F. The 12's I shoot as well as others about avg, reminds me I need to shoot more. I also have a buddy that shoots his 97 as a never miss gun being 10yds or 60yds, As Calvin said they have cool hammers and would like to pick up a Marlin also. Nice gun Mark

Steve McCarty
07-25-2012, 02:59 PM
Thanks Steve, The M12 is 1925 30" Full w Simmons vent rib which shoots well. The 16's I have never shot, sad I know but will get too it. Frame size runs same as 12's to me w/ one being 28" F and other 26" F. The 12's I shoot as well as others about avg, reminds me I need to shoot more. I also have a buddy that shoots his 97 as a never miss gun being 10yds or 60yds, As Calvin said they have cool hammers and would like to pick up a Marlin also. Nice gun Mark

I like the Nickle Steel Model 12's but for no meaningful reason. I just like them. All of my model 12's but two (a 20 and a 12) are well worn. I kind of like that. I have a 16 too, but it is hiding in my safe somewhere and I have never shot it either. When it comes to shooting 16's the task goes to my Ithaca model 37, a modified gun that is like new, but is quite old.

Pumps have been falling from favor since the advent of such good autos and then this resurgence of double guns. We never saw doubles in the field in the 50's and 60's. We were Kansas farm boys and we shot old wobbly Model 12's and a few Remington 11's. The only double I saw as a kid was a worn silver Merkle that one of the guys brought back from WWII. That guy is 90 now and is still shooting that old German shotgun.

Steve McCarty
07-25-2012, 03:00 PM
Thanks Steve, The M12 is 1925 30" Full w Simmons vent rib which shoots well. The 16's I have never shot, sad I know but will get too it. Frame size runs same as 12's to me w/ one being 28" F and other 26" F. The 12's I shoot as well as others about avg, reminds me I need to shoot more. I also have a buddy that shoots his 97 as a never miss gun being 10yds or 60yds, As Calvin said they have cool hammers and would like to pick up a Marlin also. Nice gun Mark

Yep, your model 12 looks like a real beauty!

Steve McCarty
07-25-2012, 03:03 PM
Mine was made in 1919; no take down. Winchester's site will let you know when your gun was made by its SN.

So you wear the gloves when you shoot the 97? That'll keep you from skinning the web of your thumb! It burns like mad when you do that.

Fred Preston
07-25-2012, 07:22 PM
Steve, The pic was taken for a thread of a couple years ago discussing the fine and favored shooting shooting gloves. It was just a smart ass reply showing what an old redneck used with his pump gun. I never had a problem with my thumb in the way of a cycle, though I can see how it could happen. The M1 thumb is a little different; you gotta get the thumb out of the way when it's holding the clip follower down to release the bolt. Been bit like most others. The '97 is in pretty good shape, but no collector's gun as the barrel had been cut to 25" and a dial a duck had been screwed on before I got it about 40 years ago. Pretty versitile gun though.

Steve McCarty
07-25-2012, 07:53 PM
Steve, The pic was taken for a thread of a couple years ago discussing the fine and favored shooting shooting gloves. It was just a smart ass reply showing what an old redneck used with his pump gun. I never had a problem with my thumb in the way of a cycle, though I can see how it could happen. The M1 thumb is a little different; you gotta get the thumb out of the way when it's holding the clip follower down to release the bolt. Been bit like most others. The '97 is in pretty good shape, but no collector's gun as the barrel had been cut to 25" and a dial a duck had been screwed on before I got it about 40 years ago. Pretty versitile gun though.

It is a nice 97. The stock appears to be excellent. As for the adjustable choke, I know that a lot of shooters hate them, but I have one on an old Rem mod 11 20 gauge and it works fine.

A good 97 is getting pretty rare and I think all have some collector's value, but do we really care? Shooting an antique gun is always fun and that is what turns me on.

Steve McCarty
11-11-2012, 02:10 AM
I bought my Marlin 19S today. I am looking forward to messing with it and I too have read that they can be dangerous to shoot. Thing is my gun is well used, so someone shot the dickens out of it. It is still in nice shape. I suspect it is safe to shoot since someone did.

It fits well with my collection of turn of the century pump shotguns. I'll shoot Polywad shells in it. I've got a flat.

The barrel is loose. I've seen that collar with the screw in front of the receiver and will give it a turn or two tomorrow. Hopefully she'll tighten up.

When Parkers became too expensive for the average Kansas farmer, these repeaters became all the rage. I like this gun. Not expensive, but very interesting.

Thanks for your comments.

Steve McCarty
11-11-2012, 06:54 PM
My gun, which I have yet to shoot, I've only had it one day, has the bolt release which you work with the thumb of your firing had. My gun does not cycle after pulling the trigger unless I push that button. When shooting it, do you still have to push that bolt release before you cycle the action?

Whey shooting my 97 it cycles fine after the shot, but to just open the action I have to push the bolt release button on the right side above the trigger. Does the Marlin work similarly?

Mark Landskov
11-11-2012, 07:02 PM
Steve, your gun has a recoil safety block. I believe that the recoil of firing a cartridge operates a blocking device to release the bolt. Dropping the hammer will allow the firing pin to do its unlocking, but the button must be pushed in to simulate recoil. I have never owned one of the 'newfangled' models, so I will refer to my manual for proper operation.

Steve McCarty
11-12-2012, 01:53 AM
Steve, your gun has a recoil safety block. I believe that the recoil of firing a cartridge operates a blocking device to release the bolt. Dropping the hammer will allow the firing pin to do its unlocking, but the button must be pushed in to simulate recoil. I have never owned one of the 'newfangled' models, so I will refer to my manual for proper operation.

Ah-ha! I thought as much. The 97 works the same way. Great. I bought the gun yesterday so I have yet to shoot it. It doesn't cycle full length snap caps very well. So I'm going to have to fiddle with it some more.

The gun mounts nice tho, and I like how I see over the sights, so it might turn out to be a good shooter.

Just a few minutes ago I took out my 16 gauge Model 12 and compared the two guns for feel and smooth action, etc... BIG DIFFERENCE. One can see how designs improved...also John Browning of course.

I have, five Model 12s, one 97, two 37s, one 870, one Stevens 520, one Marlin 19S, and one Winchester 1300. I like the 16 gauge Model 12 the best, but the 20 GA 870 is good too. I also like the 16 ga model 37, which is really a fine pump shotgun.

I am finding that I am really beginning to prefer 16 gauge pump shotguns, not so much for their patterns, but because they deliver 12 ga oomph and 20 ga weight. I'd like to have a double. My 16s are a model 12, 37 and Remington Model 11. A Trojan 16 would be perfect, I think. Maybe next year.

A lot of guys who I hunt with shoot 28s. It's a fad I think, but the guy I really want to hunt with demands, pretty much, that one uses a 28. Strange, but I've heard it more than once.

I'm thinking I need a Mossy pump in 28. It'd have to be a wood one, of course. My agent (yes, I have one) bought the 28 CZ I was looking at out from under me. I'd rather have a double of some sort than a pump, but I don't want to pay an arm and leg.

I have been considering 28 ga inserts for my Lefever 12. It is light enough to accept inserts without screwing up the CG, maybe Briley's but they cost something like $5/600. I'd get choke tubes too. Again, maybe next year.

I'm holding off buying more shotguns for a while. I've been buying these antique pumps and my wife is giving me the evil eye. It's been so blinking cold and windy here that I haven't been to the trap range for a few weeks. Need to get in some shoot'n ASAP.

Thanks for your help re my Marlin pump.

Mark Landskov
11-12-2012, 07:30 AM
Steve, when I owned my first Marlin repeater, I had a handful of Gamebore 2" shells that cycled perfectly through the gun. Right now I am using 2-1/2" RSTs for grouse hunting. There are two little springs that work together to keep cartridges in the magazine and prevent double feeding. One thing I noticed with all three of my Marlins, is that the action needs to be worked vigorously. Not abusively, though. Do not stop or slow down when cycling the action, or it can tend to bind up on shells halfway out of the magazine.

Steve McCarty
11-13-2012, 05:40 PM
Steve, when I owned my first Marlin repeater, I had a handful of Gamebore 2" shells that cycled perfectly through the gun. Right now I am using 2-1/2" RSTs for grouse hunting. There are two little springs that work together to keep cartridges in the magazine and prevent double feeding. One thing I noticed with all three of my Marlins, is that the action needs to be worked vigorously. Not abusively, though. Do not stop or slow down when cycling the action, or it can tend to bind up on shells halfway out of the magazine.

Thanks for the advice.

Daryl Corona
11-13-2012, 10:26 PM
Steve;
The 28ga. has been around for over a century and it has been my go to bird gun for close to 40yrs. My VHE tips the scales at 5lb8oz. and is a joy to carry all day. If you ever acquire one you'll find that the standard 3/4oz load kills far better than you would believe it would. For my money the perfect bird gun for quail, woodcock and grouse.

Steve McCarty
11-14-2012, 12:51 PM
Steve;
The 28ga. has been around for over a century and it has been my go to bird gun for close to 40yrs. My VHE tips the scales at 5lb8oz. and is a joy to carry all day. If you ever acquire one you'll find that the standard 3/4oz load kills far better than you would believe it would. For my money the perfect bird gun for quail, woodcock and grouse.

Several guys at my club shoot 28s at skeet. All reload. They do fine with them.

When it comes to small SxSs I'm going to shoot my dad's 20. Very light, 26 inch tubes. American Arms Company:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/GermVMA211/Shotguns/062.jpg

I'd like a 28 though, but this little 20 is sweet as she can be and my dad shot it for his entire life. So I warm to it and it locks up like new and shoots fine..

Steve McCarty
12-13-2012, 03:29 PM
Hoot Mon!
I have had a hankering for a repeating shotgun for some time now, and just ordered this nice Marlin. It is a 'Standard Model A Grade' in 12 gauge. It was made prior to January of 1899. The next version had a slide release button and was actually marked 'Model 1898'. This will be my 3rd 'Standard'. They are very well made and will cycle shells from 2" to 2-5/8". RST or Polywad 2-1/2" shells will be perfect for this gun. Cheers!

Here's my Marlin Pump:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/GermVMA211/001-2.jpg

If you dry fire this gun it will not cycle unless you push that little button you see just below the hammer. As Mark said, doing so simulates recoil. If your gun will pump after you dry fire it, it is not safe to shoot, which means the hammer safety isn't working. I have yet to shoot this gun, but I've got some 2.5" Polywads. I have a little collection of old repeaters and this one fits right into that group. It's a 19S.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/GermVMA211/003-2.jpg

The stock, which has been cracked at the wrist and repaired, is a beauty. I know how the stock was busted. It is a very strange beast to break down into the barrel and receiver groups. The barrel group unscrews the wrong way. Someone must have put some beef on it and twisted the stock hard enough to break it.

Steve McCarty
12-13-2012, 03:47 PM
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/GermVMA211/007.jpg

Do you see that little lever/tab just in front of the barrel ring? That little do hicky plays a very big part in field stripping this gun. If you own one of these old shooters take your time figuring out how to break it down. If you do it correctly she comes right apart and unscrews easily. Remember she unscrews clockwise! (with the butt down looking from the muzzle end).

After fiddling with this interesting old Marlin I have come to the conclusion that the designer must have been French. In my experience French guns are always weird.