Anyone Have Dealings with this Person?

[Gerry Addison]

I just had a very bad and costly experience with the person that lists guns as GATOMANN. Was wondering if anyone else has had problems with him? He lists a lot of guns especially Parker Reproductions on some other sites. Just wondering if I'm the only person that has had trouble with him.

[Joe Bernfeld]

I know he asks about twice what his guns are worth, but that's all. What did he do? You must tell us; my curiosity is getting to me :shock:!
Joe

[Gerry Addison]

He advertised a gun as a Winchester Model 21 "Baby Frame 28GA" new and unfired. Called him and went over the gun with him and he said it was 100% perfect condition and on the baby frame. When it arrived I opened it up to find the stock had a bunch of scratches so I got my camera, took pictures and called him. All of this was within 5 minutes of receiving the gun. Gun was well packaged in a Winchester hard case, nothing that could have scratched the gun. I called him and he said it wasn't like that when shipped but he would have it repaired. I reluctantly agreed to that and then I put the gun together and it felt heavy. Put it next to my 20Ga 21 and it was exactly the same size. Weighed it and it was 1 ounce lighter than my 20GA. Called my friend that owns a 21 baby frame and he measured and weighed it for me and his was 1 pound 15 ounces lighter than my gun. His barrels were shorter but that wouldn't account for 2 pounds. Called Galazan and they looked it up and low and behold it was a standard frame 28GA, not a Baby frame. By the way, the baby frame from Connecticut Shotgun is an $8000 option so you can see that makes a tremendous difference in the cost of the gun and the resale value. I called Gatomann back and told him I would be returning the gun because it wasn't what he had advertised. He again said it was a baby frame and I told him to call Galazan which he did. He found out it was a standard frame and then agreed to take the gun back. He had me ship it to his stock man for repairs to the stock which I did. I ask him when I would get my money back and he said I'm hunting it will be sometime after Christmas. When I told him that wasn't good enough I shouldn't have to wait he finally agreed to send it after the gun arrived at the stock man. I told him I expected the shipping to be paid by him since the gun wasn't at all what he advertised and he didn't say anything. I received the check yesterday and it was for the amount of the gun, minus the $220 shipping. So I was out several days time and $220. To my way of thinking he made the mistake, I should not have to pay for his mistake. Here is a picture of some of the scratches on the 100% perfect stock.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q257/esetter/Model%2021%20scratches/3bf63950.jpg

Here is a copy of his listing:
GI#: 100215519
SKU#: 1234
Title: WINCHESTER MODEL 21 BABY FRAME 28 GA.
Description: WINCHESTER 21 SMALL FRAME 28 GA. EJECTORS, SINGLE TRIG., 30"BARRELS, F/M , CIRCASSIAN WOOD , WINCHESTER LEATHER CASE W/COVER , NEWUNFIRED,

Price: $15,000.00

[Mark Ouellette]

I agree that if a gun is delivered other than it was advertised the sell should pay shipping both directions. That goes even if the seller did not realize the gun had a flaw.

[Gerry Addison]

I agree. The gun was consignment (at least he told me it was) and I think the owner told him it was a baby frame and he took him at his word. Fact remains, he advertised it as one thing and it turned out to be something completely different and worth much less money. If roles were reversed I would definitely have paid the shipping, but what really burned me was he never once said I'm sorry about the mistake. Actually was indignant that I still didn't buy the gun.

[Richard Flanders]

You are 100% correct Gerry, and totally justified in your opinions of the situation.

[Brian Stucker]

Greedy and unprofessional. However, this is a money game played by finders and collectors. Could have been worse. For $220 we, on this site, have learned a valuable lesson about the 'Cat Man'. I say we take Gerry's $220, divide by the number of participants on this forum, and each send him our 'share'. Gerry took one for the team.

I'm in for $5.

[Gerry Addison]

No, I can afford the $220, I just want people to know this is not a person you want to deal with. To be honest, if he had even said, Gerry I'm sorry, the owner told me it was a baby frame gun and I just didn't check it out I would have understood. He actually got upset that I was returning it.

[Bill Murphy]

He's a check writing dealer, buys high end guns at auction, doubles or triples the price and waits for a sucker. He's the guy who bought Petersen's BHE 0000 frame .410 Repro for $12,000 and put it in his ad for three times that. He has now changed the description of the B Grade .410 to "A-1 Special three barrel set" at Price on Request. The pictures are still of the BHE .410. If someone sent him a check for a 3 barrel A-1 Special, he would be in the same boat Gerry is in, but worse. I saw the "Baby Frame" 28 some time back, knew it was described incorrectly, but what do you do? Many dealers have no idea what they have or they choose to lie about it. He is just one of many. Who is that guy anyway? The California Side by Side Society is a pretty important group. I'm sure he is one of them. What's his real name?

[Gerry Addison]

I dealt with Billie Bryant.

[Ray Pond]

well count me in for $5 need an address though.

[Gerry Addison]

I would much rather Mr. Bryant understand that you don't treat people this way and stay in business. I do appreciate the gesture though. I've met some of the nicest people buying and selling a few guns. There was bound to be one bad apple.

[Bill Murphy]

Let's ask him if he will send the "A-1 Special 3 barrel set" on approval.

[Rex Northen]

Thank you for sharing your story!

[Gerry Addison]

I hope it keeps someone else from getting burned by this guy.

[Linn Matthews]

I just "Googled" Gatoman. Interesting!

[Gerry Addison]

I hope you googled Gatomann with 2 "N's" or it might be a different person.

[Linn Matthews]

I used one "N" and quit because the answer seemed appropriate

[Marvin Kells]

If you bought it on Gun Broker, I hope you hammer him on his feedback, with all the specifics you can fit in. :cuss:

It might prevent someone from making the same mistake.

[Gerry Addison]

It was on GunsInternational and you can't leave feedback there. I have spoken directly with GunsInternational about this matter and they are looking into what they can do about it.

[Gerry Addison]

Just an update on this messed up affair. I spoke with GunsInternational and explained everything. Was told by them that Gatomann had more complaints filed against him than all his other listers combined. Said he had spent 10 hours on the phone the past week trying to work out problems caused by sending the wrong guns to people, or not giving accurate descriptions on very expensive guns. Promised me that he was going to be banned from listing on their site. It didn't get me my $220 back, but it made me feel slightly better that he isn't totally getting away with lying and putting me through a lot of unnecessary trouble. I'm just telling people this so they don't get burned by this guy. Actually it is a family affair, I have spoken with Robert Bryant, Billie Bryant, and the father is Jerry Bryant, who I have never spoken with, but was told by the sons he makes all the decisions. This is not a group that I would recommend dealing with.

[Chuck Heald]

Is "Billie Bryant" a woman? I believe this may be the current owner of the shotgun range at Whittier Narrows, CA or her father or both.

[Gerry Addison]

No, Billie is a man. He is the son of Jerry Bryant, at least that is what I was told.

[Chuck Heald]

For some reason, I got the notion that "Gatomann" was somehow connected to the owners of Triple B range.

[Gerry Addison]

Have no idea. They do live in Fullerton California if that helps.

[Brian Stucker]

I shoot at BBB occasionally and will snoop around a bit. See if anyone knows him. Just curious what the devil looks like.

[Ray Pond]

well look for the horns and tail for starters. thanks for the update.My offer to help with the 220 still stands. the information is worht a few bucks to the cause.

[Brian Stucker]

I'm still in for a fin.

[Gerry Addison]

Sent him an invoice, registered mail for the $220 with a due date of 1/31/12.

[Marvin Kells]

For some reason, I got the notion that "Gatomann" was somehow connected to the owners of Triple B range.

Triple B Clays Owners: Bruce, Billie and Blake Barsotti.

[Bill Murphy]

They have to be serious Parker collectors, or have very deep pockets. I would like to meet the gentleman to discuss Parkers.

[billie bryant]

I just had a very bad and costly experience with the person that lists guns as GATOMANN. Was wondering if anyone else has had problems with him? He lists a lot of guns especially Parker Reproductions on some other sites. Just wondering if I'm the only person that has had trouble with him.

REPLY: my granddad was not even involved in this transaction, BUT i was & this is not even the way it went down? freddy brunner our gunsmith & friend knows also what happened ? mr.addison called on the 28 ga. while granddad was hunting & asked my son about gun & he told him it was baby frame as he thought it was? jimmy bartee who traded gun to us also told him it was a baby frame? jimmy after we called told us galazan had told him it was ? so when mr, addison called & wanted to know specifics my son told him what he knew& then gave mr.addison the serial# & told him to call galazan which he told us he did? he then said i will only pay $15,000 for gun & i said okay? we shipped to him & he called on third day to say his customer did not want gun? i asked him that i was under impression he purchased gun for himself? but no matter ship back? he said it had scraches on stock? i told him when it was shipped it had NONE? i had shipped to freddy brunner for inspection & freddy called me & said gun had been fired & there were scraches & they were recent? i then informed mr. addison of problems & tat i would send all but shipping back? under rules if gun has beenfired or damaged by buyer we did not have to do theis? but granddad did! i noticed a few members said we buy & ask big prices? well did you ever consider we PAY big to get the best? i am very sorry this has happened but we have hundreds of friends in this hobby & they all feel we should have answered this long ago? robert bryant

[billie bryant]

I agree that if a gun is delivered other than it was advertised the sell should pay shipping both directions. That goes even if the seller did not realize the gun had a flaw.

WE ADVTD. GUN FOR $17,500 AS INVOICE WAS $27,000 & GUN WAS UNFIRED IN NEW COND., BUT WHEN WE RECEIVED BACK TO FREDDY BRUNNER OUR GUNSMITH CALLED & SAID GUN HAD BEEN FIRED & ALSO SCRACHES WERE BRAND NEW DEEP LONG ONES? THIS WHOLE STORY WAS A FABRICATION TO THREATHEN US INTO REFUNDING SHIPPING? IN ALL HONESTY WE SHOULD NEVER HAVE REFUNDED ANYTHING? ROBERT

[billie bryant]

They have to be serious Parker collectors, or have very deep pockets. I would like to meet the gentleman to discuss Parkers.

BILL: I GUARNTEE YOU WE DID NOT SHIP THIS GUN WITH ANY SCRACHES WHATSOEVER & GUN WAS NEVER FIRED BEFORE WE SHIPPED? HE THREATHENED US WITH RUINNING OUR NAME IF WE DID NOT REFUND 220 & GRANDDAD DOES NOT DO WELL WITH THREATS BEING AN OLD RETIRED MARINE SO WE TOLD HIM NO! BUT THERE ARE SO MANY false ACCUSATIONS IN HIS RETORT? THANKS, ROBERT

[billie bryant]

He's a check writing dealer, buys high end guns at auction, doubles or triples the price and waits for a sucker. He's the guy who bought Petersen's BHE 0000 frame .410 Repro for $12,000 and put it in his ad for three times that. He has now changed the description of the B Grade .410 to "A-1 Special three barrel set" at Price on Request. The pictures are still of the BHE .410. If someone sent him a check for a 3 barrel A-1 Special, he would be in the same boat Gerry is in, but worse. I saw the "Baby Frame" 28 some time back, knew it was described incorrectly, but what do you do? Many dealers have no idea what they have or they choose to lie about it. He is just one of many. Who is that guy anyway? The California Side by Side Society is a pretty important group. I'm sure he is one of them. What's his real name?

HIS REAL NAME IS billie bryant, & HE HAS BEEN A PRIVATE HUNTER & COLLECTOR FOR 47 YRS. & BOB PETERSEN & HIM WERE GREAT FRIENDS ALONG WITH FRANK PACMYAR & FREDDY BRUNNER? HE STEPS UP TO BUY GUNS BILL THAT SOME PEOPLE WILL NOT BUT WISHED THEY HAD AFTER THE FACT? HE DOES NOT TRY & SELL FOR TRIPLE THE PRICE? & FOR YOUR INFO THE BHE SOLD FOR 27000 TWICE ALREADY? M Y GRANDSON WAS HELPING & HE MADE ERRORS IN DESCRIBING THREE GUNSBUT I WOULD RATHER HAVE A 14 YR.OLD HELPING ME THAT MAKES HONEST MISTAKES THAN A BUYER WHO CANNOT TELL THE TRUTH BECAUSE OF BUYERS REMORSE AFTER DEALING THE KID DOWN FROM 17500 TO 15000 & THEN TELLING BUT UNTRUTHS? ROBERT BRYANT

[Gerry Addison]

I just got home and read this thread and I can't believe what a flat out liar this guy is. I'm going to post all of the emails from me and from him from start to end so you can be the judge of who is telling the truth in the matter. I'm glad I keep every email from my gun transactions. If you look at the time stamps you will see he was emailed and phoned within 10 minutes of receiving the gun and told of the scratches. The gun was in UPS's hands within 48 hours of receipt of the gun and it never left my house and was never fired by me or anyone else while I had it. I will go to court and swear every word I've said is true and I hope this bunch of crooks enjoys their $220. The emails will be on a separate post as it will not all fit on one post. If you look at dates and times on the emails you will see that the gun arrived to me on Dec. 6th at 11:46 AM and the gun was shipped back to him on Dec. 8th and I have the UPS receipt with the date and time that I can scan if anyone wants to see it. Find any threat in any of these emails? The only time I talked to him on the phone was before I bought the gun and 10 minutes after I received it. The actual ad is the first thing on the listing. Seems like he was calling it a baby frame gun doesn't it.

[Gerry Addison]

GI#: 100215519
SKU#: 1234
Title: WINCHESTER MODEL 21 BABY FRAME 28 GA.
Description: WINCHESTER 21 SMALL FRAME 28 GA. EJECTORS, SINGLE TRIG., 30"BARRELS, F/M , CIRCASSIAN WOOD , WINCHESTER LEATHER CASE W/COVER , NEWUNFIRED, BILLIE, 714-446-9977

Price: $15,000.00

Name: Gerry Addison
Email: esetter5@me.com
Phone Number: 513-405-9900
Question/Message:
I spoke with you last night about this gun and I don't want to bother you on Thanksgiving, but when you have time call me and I would like to go over this gun with you and talk about purchasing it. Gerry Addison

On Nov 26, 2011, at 2:49 AM, J BRYANT <bb801@msn.com> wrote:

hi gerry , very nice talking with you! i told dad you wanted the 21 & i am happy you told me because joshua told him he wanted it & i explained to dad you were first as i spoke with joshua after you & explained to dad he did not want to deal with me only him & that is why he missed gun! dad laughed & called him & explained the situation & he ended up buying a A-1 spcl. from dad!haha! anyway our address is billie bryant , 1916 lexington drive, fullerton , calif, 92835 it will come to $15,080.00we will supply insurance & packing, i am very sincere when i say your client will love gun! thanks, billie


Subject: Re: An inquiry regarding your GunsInternational.com listing #100215519
From: esetter5@me.com
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 19:29:13 -0600
To: bb801@msn.com

Did the check arrive yet for the 21? Always worried about mailing checks. Gerry

Gerry Addison
7757 Whisper Ln.
Okeana, OH 45053
513-405-9900 - Cell
esetter5@roadrunner.com

gerry it arrived today & will ship 21 in morning, thanks much, billie

From: esetter5@me.com
Subject: Re: An inquiry regarding your GunsInternational.com listing #100215519
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 11:26:12 -0500
To: bb801@msn.com

Billie, I just received the gun 10 minutes ago, opened it up and was surprised to find a large group of scratches on the left side of the butt stock. I've attached several pictures for you so you can see what I'm talking about. I told my buyer the gun was mint. I don't believe he will accept the gun with these scratches. Don't know how this could have happened, nothing in the case that could have scratched it and you had it wrapped well. All the scratches are on the left side. There are several other scratches on this side as well. Call me so we can talk about this. Gerry, 513-367-6030 or cell 513-405-9900

On Dec 6, 2011, at 1:36 PM, J BRYANT wrote

hi gerry i am here in riverton illinois bird hunting with grandkids, the scratches were not there when left? but i will contact freddy brunner in about 5 minutes by phone & he will FIX anything at my cost? gerry i sincerely had no idea these were there? are they that bad as i can not tell? billie

From: esetter5@me.com
Subject: Re: An inquiry regarding your GunsInternational.com listing #100215519
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 14:11:24 -0500
To: bb801@msn.com

Billie the scratches are bad, not deep, but a lot of them. Looks like the gun was sitting in a rack that had something sharp at the bottom. I examined the case closely and I can see nothing that would have scratched it up like this. There are also so single long scratches on the left side scattered over the stock. I know my buyer won't accept it as it is because I told him is was as new and perfect. I don't think he will be willing to wait a couple of months to get the gun while it is being repaired. I hope this picture shows you the extent of the scratches. Sorry about this, it puts me in a jamb as I put up the cash for the gun and was only charging him $500 extra for my trouble because he is a friend. I use Dave Wolf in Waco Texas for all of my repairs and he is very good and very fast but again, I don't know if any of this will fly with this guy.


On Dec 6, 2011, at 4:16 PM, J BRYANT wrote:
hi gerry: i just got back in & called freddy & he said he can fix immediately for granddad if he gets it quick? can you ship to him just the receiver & he will fix in have returned in four days? we had to make deal with him that he could put dads purdy on back burner until feb.? his address is freddy brunner 1610 friendship lane, escondido , calif. 92026 , put your return address in & he will return in four to five days, thanks, billie

From: esetter5@me.com
Subject: Re: An inquiry regarding your GunsInternational.com listing #100215519
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 20:05:42 -0500
To: bb801@msn.com

Just got off the phone with one of my best friends that owns a Baby Frame 28GA from Galazan. The frame is 5/16 more narrow than the gun sent to me and the barrels are 5/16" more narrow at the breech. This is definitely a standard frame gun. It is very pretty, but not what I bought.

On Dec 7, 2011, at 3:55 AM, J BRYANT wrote:

hi gerry : we are just getting up & around to go hunting, saw your emails & told granddad what you had to say & he was not happy but he is calling lou & tony today as he called after your email & was told a different story? mike told him that it was the small frame gun & that there are only 5 of the very small frame super baby frames built & they were 29000 dollars with no engraving? the 28 ga. you purchased cost 27000 new with case, granddad sold it for 15000 & gerry is still willing to redo stock for free? granddad is willing to go 500 & fix wood for free? billie


From: esetter5@me.com
Subject: Re: An inquiry regarding your GunsInternational.com listing #100215519
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 08:15:49 -0500
To: bb801@msn.com

Billie, I assure you this is not a Baby Frame gun. All measurements are identical to my two 20GA guns. I'm not interested in the gun because it is not on the Baby Frame. I'm not sure who "Mike" is but there are only two frame sizes for the 28GA guns. There is the standard frame which is the 20GA frame, and the Baby Frame which is much smaller and the frame and barrels are all scaled to the 28Ga. This is the standard frame 100% positive on that matter. If you go to Connecticut Shotgun's web site you can see the options for ordering a gun. The baby frame is an $8000 upgrade from the 28 on the standard frame. The ad listed the gun as a Baby Frame which it is not. I just need the address where you would like the gun returned and I'll get it shipped today. I'm sorry the owner of the gun told you the wrong thing. Please let me know the shipping method you want me to use. I have a UPS account and can use that if you like. I'll get it out to you today.

GI#: 100215519
SKU#: 1234
Title: WINCHESTER MODEL 21 BABY FRAME 28 GA.
Description: WINCHESTER 21 SMALL FRAME 28 GA. EJECTORS, SINGLE TRIG., 30"BARRELS, F/M , CIRCASSIAN WOOD , WINCHESTER LEATHER CASE W/COVER , NEWUNFIRED, BILLIE, 714-446-9977


On Dec 7, 2011, at 12:24 PM, J BRYANT wrote:

gerry send back to freddy brunner as he will fix anyway? thanks, billie

From: esetter5@me.com
Subject: Re: An inquiry regarding your GunsInternational.com listing #100215519
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 08:43:55 -0500
To: bb801@msn.com

Gun was shipped to Mr. Brunner yesterday. You should have gotten an email from UPS covering this. Can you tell me when you will be sending out my check.

On Dec 8, 2011, at 12:15 PM, J BRYANT wrote:

GERRY AS I SAID BEFORE I AM HERE IN ILLINOIS WITH FAMILY AND WILL BE HOME AFTER XMAS. AND WILL SEND , BILLIE

From: esetter5@me.com
Subject: Re: An inquiry regarding your GunsInternational.com listing #100215519
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 12:45:50 -0500
To: bb801@msn.com

Billie, I don't feel I should have to wait that long for this check. It is a lot of money to me and it wasn't my mistake, I shouldn't be penalized. A personal check is fine. I would think that under the circumstances you would take care of this right away. I wasted two days of my time waiting for the gun to be delivered and making phone calls to Galazan and shipping back to your gunsmith, and tied up a lot of money and no one has even apologized for the mistake. The tracking number on the package is 1Z62020V0390153154 and it was shipped UPS insured for $15,000. Delivery date is by end of day on Tuesday, 12/13/11. If you want to wait until the gun arrives at Mr. Brunner's shop that is fine, but I would like the check mailed the next day. Please, lets wrap this up.


On Dec 8, 2011, at 4:57 PM, J BRYANT wrote:

GERRY : I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR REPLY AT ALL? MY GRANDSON HAS RESOLD GUN ALREADY FOR THE SAME EXACT PRICE TO ONE OF TONYS CLIENTS & LOU EVEN SAID IT WAS A SUPER DEAL? I THINK YOU WANTED A 30,000 DOLLAR GUN FOR 15000 ? I WILL SEND YOU A CK. AS SOON AS FREDDY GETS IT BACK? BILLIE


From: esetter5@me.com
Subject: Re: An inquiry regarding your GunsInternational.com listing #100215519
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 17:30:38 -0500
To: bb801@msn.com

Thank you. That is all I'm asking for. I never said it wasn't a good price on the gun, it just isn't the gun I thought I was buying or that my customer wanted. It was advertised as a baby frame gun and that is what my buyer wanted. The gun is beautiful, just not what he thought he was buying. I'm glad you sold the gun and got your price. Had the gun been what you said it was I would have bought it plain and simple. If roles were reversed and I had listed the gun improperly and you received it and discovered my mistake, I would have apologized to you for the trouble and gotten your money to you as quickly as possible. I just didn't feel I should have to wait several weeks to get my money back.

On Dec 8, 2011, at 6:36 PM, J BRYANT wrote:

GERRY YOU WILL NOT HAVE TO WAIT SEVERAL WEEKS AS SOON AS FREDDY ACKNOWLEDGES HE HAS IT & INSPECTS IT YOUR CK. WILL BE SENT, BILLIE

From: esetter5@me.com
Subject: Re: An inquiry regarding your GunsInternational.com listing #100215519
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 20:23:55 -0500
To: bb801@msn.com

The 21 arrived at Freddy Brunner's shop today and I spoke with him and he assured me it made it there in good condition. I told him you wanted the scratches in the stock repaired and he said he would take care of it. Here is the total amount spent by me which I feel I should have returned:

$15080 initial check sent to you for the gun and shipping
$140.57 return shipping UPS to Freddy Brunner

$15220.57 total amount spent.

Please let me know when the check has been mailed.

Gerry Addison


On Dec 14, 2011, at 3:47 AM, J BRYANT wrote:

gerry send exact address for your refund, billie

The address is

Gerry Addison
7757 Whisper Ln.
Okeana, OH 45053

513-405-9900
Thank you.

On December 16, 2011 10:39:40

I received the personal check that you mailed today in the amount of $15,000 and I have to say that I wasn't surprised that you didn't pay for the shipping on the gun. After all, you misrepresent a gun as 100% perfect condition and it arrives with scratches all over the stock, and you advertise it as a Baby Frame 28GA and it is a standard frame, just a mere $8000 option that you happened to miss. Why would I expect you to be honest enough to admit your mistake and pay for the shipping. The way that you handled this transaction from beginning to end has been dishonest. You know, you never even once said I'm sorry I made a mistake on the posting, or I'm sorry you went to the trouble to buy something I listed that wasn't as advertised. That would of at least let me know that you feel bad or that there is a some little touch of honesty. Hope the $220 that you cost me makes you feel better. Was it really worth it?


From: esetter5@me.com
Subject: Re: Unexplainable & Inexcusable
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:28:11 -0500
To: bb801@msn.com

Mr. Bryant, please remove me from your mailing list. I have two children in the military and I appreciate you sending this on and I agree with what is written here but you sir cheated me out of $220 and I don't appreciate that. It is not that much money, but I don't like someone to take advantage of me and that is exactly what you did. At this point I'm exploring my options and how I will handle this. Needless to say we won't be doing any business. You taught me a valuable lesson and one I won't forget. I hope at some point I am able to return the favor.

Gerry Addison

On December 20, 2011 4:11:48 AM EST

mr. addison i just returned home from hunting to see your very rude remarks about my grandfather? first off I made the decision on how to handle this refund! i do not believe the explanations you referred to? you looked at 12 close up pics. of the 21 to start with & then asked my brother how much it weighed & he told you a lil over 6 lbs? then you want to return it because it is not the $32,000 dollar 28 ga. 5 lb. model,but the $27,000 dollar model? you paid $15,000 for a new 28 ga. in case that was never fired that you say had handling scratches? if you look in the rules it clearly states that buyer will pay the shipping on returns! it is also disturbing granddad charged 1/2 the shipping you tried charging? you say you have two sons in military ? that's great & very commendable, we have 14 members of our family that are marines four twenty year vets! we will remove you immediately from our emails! regards, robert bryant

On December 20, 2011 8:19:43 AM EST


If you also read the rules it states:

"Nothing will undermine a user's confidence in the item you're looking to sell faster than inaccurate statements or misleading representations about the item. Since any erosion of user confidence in you is likely to be accompanied by erosion of user confidence in us, we care deeply about making sure that the information you supply is accurate and that, in all respects, you treat GunsInternational.com users fairly and honorably. "


The very title of your listing states Baby Frame model 21-28GA. Was the gun a Baby Frame, NO IT WAS NOT. You cannot tell if a gun is a baby frame or not by pictures. I trusted your word. I ask you on the phone it if was a baby frame and you said yes. You said I should have been able to tell it was a baby frame by the pictures. You had the gun in your hands and told me it was a baby frame, but I'm suppose to know by pictures? Even after I measured the gun and told you it wasn't right you still insisted it was a baby frame until I called Galazan and they pulled the work order. If in fact you told me it was a little over 6 pounds (which I don't remember doing) you didn't tell the truth there either, it was exactly 6 pounds 15 ounces by my digital scale. I'd say that is a little closer to 7 pounds than 6. I don't care what the gun cost, that has nothing to do with this,it wasn't what you advertised you made a mistake or told a lie. Whatever the case you should have returned all of the money if you were honest and fair. If you ordered a Blue Ford hard top and a Red Ford convertible and a came in would you accept it anyway, even if the convertible cost more, and would the dealer ask you to pay for the transportation fees when you said you didn't want it, wasn't what you ordered? I also ask you on the phone if there were any marks on the stock and you said not a mark anywhere, was that accurate too. I took the pictures of the stock and called you within 5 minutes of receipt of the gun, emailed and called you. I was going to accept the gun with the repairs even though it would then be a refinished gun. I won't accept a gun that is not the model I wanted, or was told I was getting.

I sent you an itemized listing of what I spent:

$15080 original check sent to you
$140 cost to ship it insured for $15000 to your stock man, can provide you receipt for the shipping charges.

total owed me $15220

I would like to have the $220 owed me and we'll just call this an honest mistake on your part and forget about it.

[Joe Bernfeld]

:corn:

[billie bryant]

:corn:

MR ADDISON: i feel after dealing with you regarding all that you have alluded too on this sale & posting of emails that you forgot to send all of them? you mysteriously left three to five out ? you also forgot to explain the 6 or 7 PHONE calls you made to us & threatning myself & grandson over refund? in your postings you absolutely lied about gunsinternational? i do understand buyers remorse & being polite in just saying i do not want gun as i cannot afford it or it is just not what i thought or expected it to be? but i do not understand going on line to tell LIES & total fabrications about someone because you thought it was only way to get your refund? i have been in this hobby like i said 45 yrs. with my sons, grandsons, grandaughters & nieces & nephews we have NEVER encountered anyone like yourself over 220? especially when you have been SO wrong? i also am very surprised that some individuals i have NEVER spoke with or had dealings with can be so vindictive & come to condemning someone before knowing ALL the facts? i personally nor any of my children or grandkids purposely harmed you in any manner whatsoever? we did make some listing mistakes because of not enough knowledge on my grandsons part & i take full responsibility for that as my collection is rather large & confusing to them? we have over 73 parker reproduction sets along with 37 orig. parkers so confused he may have been but this was NOT even about a parker it was about a winchester model 21 galazan gun that you KNEW before it was shipped it was a 20 ga. frame as you had serial number & called lou at galazans before my boy shipped? you neglected to put listing at 17500 which we were asking & you offered 15000 because of this?i really wished my grandson had a copy of the phone conversation you had with him as it would have been very embarrassing at this time from your accusations? i personally saw this gun & know the scratches were NOT on gun when shipped as we took it on trade just before it sold from jimmy bartee a fine collector from texas who has outstanding guns of very hi quality & would never allow a gun to be in that condition to be sold? i sincerely wished you would admit to the fact you have made some mistakes in telling the truth about this matter ? it is not the 220 dollars mr. addison it is the principles involved at this time? i could have 100 friends write emails about this matter & you would be surprised but that is not my way, i surely hope you feel you have received 220 dollars worth of my rearend from all this? have a great day! by the way you have NEVER spoke with me? Billie Bryant

[billie bryant]

He's a check writing dealer, buys high end guns at auction, doubles or triples the price and waits for a sucker. He's the guy who bought Petersen's BHE 0000 frame .410 Repro for $12,000 and put it in his ad for three times that. He has now changed the description of the B Grade .410 to "A-1 Special three barrel set" at Price on Request. The pictures are still of the BHE .410. If someone sent him a check for a 3 barrel A-1 Special, he would be in the same boat Gerry is in, but worse. I saw the "Baby Frame" 28 some time back, knew it was described incorrectly, but what do you do? Many dealers have no idea what they have or they choose to lie about it. He is just one of many. Who is that guy anyway? The California Side by Side Society is a pretty important group. I'm sure he is one of them. What's his real name?

bill my grandson has been hammered enough about listing this wrong & for your info we did not buy & list the 410 baby frame for 36000? it sold for 24000 & could have sold to six people? by the way we have two three barrel sets A_1 spcl. & one set of bhe 410-28 set? i sincerely wish people like yourself would be more sociable & just email me & ask who or what prices are before you just take potshots at individuals you do not even know? you might actually have somthing in common about guns or? have a great day, billie

[Brian Stucker]

Boy, if I was Billie I'd be tempted to send 'Mr. Addison' his $220 back WITH an apology ON THIS SITE just to set the record straight. That'd show 'em!

[Gerry Addison]

Sir, you are an outright liar. I never threatened anyone. As the emails show I was polite even though you cheated me out of my money. I didn't call Connecticut shotgun until after I had received the gun, called Billie, called my friend who owns a baby frame, and emailed Billie several times, and every time he insisted it was a baby frame gun. That is when I called Connecticut. The person I spoke with on the phone exactly three times, called himself Billie Bryant, signed his emails Billie Bryant. I spoke with him exactly three times, twice before the gun was shipped to go over the gun, and once 10 minutes after I received the gun. It isn't about the $220. I can afford to lose it. I don't like to be cheated, and I don't want anyone else to be cheated by you. I recommend that anyone who doesn't believe me call GunsInternational and ask them about him. I think then you will understand who is telling the truth here. You finally cheated someone that wouldn't just let you get away with it.

[billie bryant]

Sir, you are an outright liar. I never threatened anyone. As the emails show I was polite even though you cheated me out of my money. I didn't call Connecticut shotgun until after I had received the gun, called Billie, called my friend who owns a baby frame, and emailed Billie several times, and every time he insisted it was a baby frame gun. That is when I called Connecticut. The person I spoke with on the phone exactly three times, called himself Billie Bryant, signed his emails Billie Bryant. I spoke with him exactly three times, twice before the gun was shipped to go over the gun, and once 10 minutes after I received the gun. It isn't about the $220. I can afford to lose it. I don't like to be cheated, and I don't want anyone else to be cheated by you. I recommend that anyone who doesn't believe me call GunsInternational and ask them about him. I think then you will understand who is telling the truth here. You finally cheated someone that wouldn't just let you get away with it.
mr. addison you are a very sad individual who has to rant & tell totally half truths about this whole episode? you are outright lying about calling tony about the gun as i know lou would not lie about this? freddy is honest man & jimmy bartee is also? that leaves the decision up to the members? if they feel you are not lying then you have put one over on them BUT not me! this will be last time i stoop to your level, have a great day!

[billie bryant]

Boy, if I was Billie I'd be tempted to send 'Mr. Addison' his $220 back WITH an apology ON THIS SITE just to set the record straight. That'd show 'em!

brian then i would be admmitting we were wrong? i promise you we are not & will not stoop to his level as many of the hobby friends i have spoke with said not to let someone use internet to scare you? thanks, billie

[Jeff Kuss]

Gentlemen,
If we can't keep this civil, then I believe we need to take it back to a private discussion. I don't believe this has a place on this site.
Jeff Kuss
Moderator

[billie bryant]

Gentlemen,
If we can't keep this civil, then I believe we need to take it back to a private discussion. I don't believe this has a place on this site.
Jeff Kuss
Moderator

thank you jeff, i apologize & will no longer be involved, billie

[Gerry Addison]

I am done with this. I just believe that if people are allowed to cheat others then anyone that buys and sells guns honestly is affected. I have said everything I wanted to say and people can draw any conclusions they wish. I've tried to honestly show what happened in this dealing and how I tried to be fair and do the right thing. If someone decides he can be trusted then so be it.

[Chuck Heald]

Gerry,
I encountered a similar situation on a Lefever I purchased from someone. The gun came and obviously had a mix match of barrels and frame. The S/N on the frame had been altered clearly. The gun was off face as well. I decided to send it back within a few minutes of seeing it. It cost me over $200 in shipping both ways, which the owner never offerred to reimburse. I felt lucky to get anything back from this scoundrel. I wrote off the money and moved on.

[Marvin Kells]

After reading all this there are only two issues. Everything else just muddies the water.

1) Was the gun delivered "as advertised"? Obviously not.
2) Was the gun damaged by Gerry before it was returned? Obviously not as Gerry sent an email about the scratches only minutes after delivery.

A reputable dealer or individual would have been embarrassed by the mistake and would have offered a sincere apology and a full refund.

GATOMANN Billie Bryant's lack of professionalism is truly appalling.

[Joe Bernfeld]

:corn:...

[Brian Stucker]

Reproman just might have put the final nail in this MUTHA! RIP.

[billie bryant]

After reading all this there are only two issues. Everything else just muddies the water.

1) Was the gun delivered "as advertised"? Obviously not.
2) Was the gun damaged by Gerry before it was returned? Obviously not as Gerry sent an email about the scratches only minutes after delivery.

A reputable dealer or individual would have been embarrassed by the mistake and would have offered a sincere apology and a full refund.

GATOMANN Billie Bryant's lack of professionalism is truly appalling.

coming to such a one sided decision & believing he did not damage or fire gun when you were not involved seems to be making a decisionbased on friendship & NOT reality?

[Marvin Kells]

coming to such a one sided decision & believing he did not damage or fire gun when you were not involved seems to be making a decisionbased on friendship & NOT reality?

Was the gun damaged by Gerry before it was returned? Obviously not as Gerry sent an email about the scratches only minutes after delivery.

My statement stands. Gerry provided the documentation.

Your handling of the issue and inane comments speak for themselves. Issue closed.

[jimmy bartee]

I have known Billie and Jerry Bryant for 10 years and I am the one that he bought the 28 ga from. I am just reading what people are saying about him and his family and it is evident they do not know them. People are are saying Billie is a man when she is his wife. The gun did not have any scratches on it and had not been hunted with. I can't believe you would trash a mans name after he give you your money back. What else do you expect him to do? He paid freight 1 way , you should pay the other. I along with many other people has had many dealings with Jerry and have had no problems. You should be glad he give you anything back.

[Gerry Addison]

For the record I don't know Reproman nor have I spoken to him I don't believe. Secondly perhaps the fact that I had all of the emails showing when the gun was received, the time it was received, the time the email was sent to you along with a phone call. Could I possibly have fired the gun, damaged the stock, took pictures of it, emailed it, and called him in 10 minutes. The fact that you said it was originally listed for $17000 and I got you down to $15,000 when I showed the copy of the original listing ad with the price of $15,000 and that is exactly what I paid. Perhaps that you said I kept the gun longer than three days before shipping it when I showed that it was shipped on the second day to the person of your choosing. Maybe all of these things might have convinced someone that I was in fact telling the truth. For the record, here is the UPS listing showing that it was shipped on 12/7/11.
Tracking number 1Z62020V0390153154
Reference Number(s):21-28GA
Shipped/Billed On:12/07/2011
Type:PackageWeight:25.00 lbs

Hard to keep all the stories straight when the documents are staring you in the face and you are caught isn't it. Maybe GunsInternational is my friend as well and they changed the listing to show a cheaper price just for me. I guess UPS is my friend as well and changed the date stamps on the package. And by the way, how does Mr. Brunner know the age of scratches in the stock and that I did them and they weren't there when the gun was shipped, just like the gun was a baby frame when it was shipped and grew to a standard size frame when it arrived at my house? Curious.

[Bill Murphy]

Jimmie Bartee must have a sex identification problem. because the Bryants posted earlier that "HIS name is Billie Bryant and on and on about how he was a friend of Robert Petersen." Is Billie a girl or a boy? He claims he is a boy and his gun buying buddy claims he is a wife, which is normally a girl, except maybe in California.

[Robin Lewis]

Would someone please shoot this thread and put me out of my misery.

[Brian Stucker]

:dh:

[Bruce Day]

Now Bill, you should be more sensitive to the gender ambiguous. I understand from reading that there are all varieties of orientations and those people are not limited to certain states.


And by the way, with this whole sordid thread which has nothing to do with anything the PGCA is about, in case anybody has forgotten what a Parker looks like, here's one. Finally , here's where this thread belongs.

[Marvin Kells]

And by the way, with this whole sordid thread which has nothing to do with anything the PGCA is about

Except that GATTOMAN/Billie Bryant has a bunch of Parker Reproductions for sale!

I, for one, appreciate the "heads up" from Gerry ....

[billie bryant]

Reproman just might have put the final nail in this MUTHA! RIP.

reproman is a good friend of ensetter & agreed with him NOT even UNDERSTANDING or care about problem? my friends are amazed at remarks of individuals who have NO knowledge of what even went on? truly amazing? you act as though this man lost all his $ & whatever he says is gospel? my granddad is not saying anything but i will vouch for his honesty over any of ensetter or his friends! robert

[billie bryant]

Jimmie Bartee must have a sex identification problem. because the Bryants posted earlier that "HIS name is Billie Bryant and on and on about how he was a friend of Robert Petersen." Is Billie a girl or a boy? He claims he is a boy and his gun buying buddy claims he is a wife, which is normally a girl, except maybe in California.

bill there are 6 bryants! jerry, billie the brother, robert the grandson along with jered, &beau, & billielee the wife! why is it you have such a RUDE way of showing any common courtesy ,or for that matter CLASS? there are alot of REAL people in this hobby who have observed this as i have sent copies to them of the remarks from some of you collectors?? they laugh & think the forum is hilraious? my granddad does not wish us to stoop this low ? goodbye!

[Bruce Day]

Jeff ( the moderator), can't we just flush this whole thread down into the Parker prairie depository vault?
We have several people all yammering at each other, there is no way to sort out who is right and we as the PGCA only lose by it. And the controversy has nothing to do with Parker shotguns.

[Jeff Kuss]

This thread is closed.
Jeff Kuss Moderator