Parker barrel wedge

[Jack Kuzepski]

A friend has a P grade that I'm thinking about buying and the action is a little loose. I believe it is an early gun without the barrel wedge. Is the wedge difficult to install? Is that the only piece that would need installation or would the locking bolt need changing too? Also, is that how Parker would have handled a repair like that?

Thanks,

Jack Kuzepski

[Bruce Day]

can be
no
yes
yes

The Parker term is "bolt plate". The 1910 bolt plate mates with a matching side channels bolt. The bolt plate is individually fitted into the barrel lug bolt bite recess and pinned. The bolt plate and mating bolt contacting surfaces are filed for correct top lever position. To retro fit a bolt plate into the barrel lug, the bite must be machined to form an inverted T shaped slot mating with the bolt plate.

The bolt plate should be first soft fitted then hardened. In the absence of hardening, the bolt plate/bolt will wear quickly and stick.

Bruce Day, Parker non expert newbie

[Jack Kuzepski]

To install the wedge, is the proper way to do it the following: cut a slot in the bottom lug the correct thickness of the wedge tail and then drill and install a cross pin?

Jack Kuzepski

[Brian Dudley]

Another way would be to add material to the bolt or barrel lug and then remove to refit. Not too easy of the task either.
I see that at one time my G grade had some material brazed onto the bolt in order to tighten the breech up. It works just fine, good and tight. But the only issue is that the soft brazing material tends to make the bolt stick in the lug if the lever is snapped closed. Thus making it a tad difficult to get the top lever to move next time opening. But if I Let the top lever back by hand, no issues.

[Dave Suponski]

The conversion from a non replacable bolt plate to a replacable bolt plate is not for a hobbiest. If not properly fitted there will be all kinds of problems. One such symptom is what Brian is describing with the bolt sticking if the top lever is allowed to snap shut. This means that the 12 1/2 degree angle that the bolt operates on is just not quite right causing the bolt to lock on the bolt plate. There are three different types of bolts. First is the non replacable,second is the replacable with a full width bite and the third and latest is a replacable bolt with the two sides relieved. As far as the bolts go they are all the same profile.Just an angle cut at the 12 1/2 degrees.

[Bruce Day]

..... As far as the bolts go they are all the same profile.Just an angle cut at the 12 1/2 degrees.No channels.


From the 1936 Parker Skilled Hands catalog. The illustration shows the particular form for the side channel bolt plate/ bolt mating interface. The side channels in the bolt plate are gripped by the side ridges in the mating bolt and fit within the machined recess in the lock bolt. This bolt plate/bolt is the 1910 patent version and is the third iteration of the lock system. This is why a gun with either no bolt plate or the flat R & R bolt of the 1905 version cannot be simply changed to include the 1910 bolt plate without also changing the bolt.

While I have not seen the function of the side channels/side ridges interface discussed in the Parker literature, I assume that it provides lateral stability, but I am not a degreed mechanical engineer or certified machinist.

Although these photos are from pages of the Skilled Hands catalog, I believe the same photos are reproduced in TPS, I haven't checked.

Bruce Day, Parker novice hoping to advance to second class

[Dave Suponski]

A bolt without the channels can be used with a bolt plate with the recesses cut into the sides just not the other way around. That is what I was trying to say....my bad.

[Bruce Day]

True, but then you would have LESS mating surface contact than with the 1905 full surface bolt plate and you would not have the lateral stability provided by the mating channel / ridge interface, so I would think it would be a disadvantageous result ......a half assed fix in other words.

The illustration also shows the complexity of hand fitting a replacement bolt plate to fit within the recess of the bolt. Inexact gunsmithing can result in a fit worse than it was before. So just because the top lever is to the left of center doesn't mean, IMHO, that the bolt plate should be replaced. I've suggested to just live with it until the lever is full left and the barrel begins to get vertically loose. To be properly done, the action needs to be dissassembled and the bolt removed for matching and too many gunsmiths think they can just stick in a new bolt plate without doing more.

Bruce Day, novice Parker enthusiast

[Dave Suponski]

True, What you say Bruce. But look at it this way...If you use a bolt with the full face width and a bolt plate with the recesses you will not be losing any surface area over the last version because there is already less bolting area with that design already. The channels add nothing to bolting surface area they only add a little lateral support.

But at least we agree that this is not a fix for the home mechanic.

[Bruce Day]

What I do know, because I have seen several this way, is that when a pre 1910 gun without the side channel/ridge interlocking bolt plate/bolt went back to Parker for maintenance, Parker did not just swap out or install a new bolt plate, but installed a paired bolt. Maybe anything less is , well, less.

Bruce Day, Parker non expert

[Larry Frey]

True, but then you would have LESS mating surface contact than with the 1905 full surface bolt plate and you would not have the lateral stability provided by the mating channel / ridge interface


Bruce,
I'm not sure how much if any lateral stability is gained from the use of the newer bolt vs. the full surface version. I would think the fit of the barrel lug to the slot in the frame as well as the dolls head would generate the most lateral stability.

The other consideration when converting older guns to the 1910 style bolt plate is that Parker changed the top lever linkage at some point. I’ve made several hybrid bolts for my gunsmith which allowed the use of the 1910 bolt plate on guns with the older style linkage.

[Jack Kuzepski]

Guys,

Thank you for your explanations. I can see, now, that as a repair it is out of my league and one that I'll let an expert handle. However it is still a very neat remedy for a loose action.



Jack Kuzepski,

[Dave Suponski]

Jack, Thank you for posting your question. I provoked a great discussion.

[George Blair]

What I do know, because I have seen several this way, is that when a pre 1910 gun without the side channel/ridge interlocking bolt plate/bolt went back to Parker for maintenance, Parker did not just swap out or install a new bolt plate, but installed a paired bolt. Maybe anything less is , well, less.

Bruce Day, Parker non expert

Who does it right? What does it cost? Thanks, George

[Bruce Day]

If you mean by "right" replacing the bolt to match the 1910 channeled bolt plate , Del Grego. They have the original parts. Call and ask.

It seems to me in my non expert view far away out here that Parker developed the 1910 bolt/bolt plate configuration over the 1905 version for a reason and that reason is negated unless the matching bolt is used. I know some feel that it doesn't matter, like some also feel the dolls head rib extension doesn't matter, but it obviously mattered to Parker. Me not being an expert, I don't know enough to dispute Parker.

[Bill Murphy]

I don't think that Parker Brothers thought that the doll's head mattered in a durability or mechanical way. They made thousands of guns without the doll's head without apology.

[Angel Cruz]

This is why I love this place. Great discussion!!

[Bruce Day]

Bill, look at the guns they made without a doll's head rib extension. First you have the lifter actioned guns, which preceeded the rib extension development. Next you have the later Trojans, which were a low price point gun made inexpensively by Parker standards. Next are the single barrel guns, which had no torque caused by off center line fired side by side barrels. Then were those few graded doubles special ordered without rib extension. The latter are the only Parkers that I believe a person can justifiably point to in argument that the rib extension was not necessary. I believe that those do not number in the thousands by any means. I believe that absence of a rib extension in those guns was not Parker driven, but customer driven.

So would you argue that the rib extension was just unnecessary fluff.....something like a marketing ploy? Its too costly a feature to justify that.....you know how hard it is to get the fit right when replacing barrels.

Obviously, Mr King is not among us to defend his design but for me, its one of those Parker design features that I want.

Bruce Day, Parker non expert apprentice fourth class

[Bill Murphy]

Yup, Bruce, they made thousands of perfectly acceptable guns without a doll's head, regardless of your statement to the contrary.