damascus- raised dent

[David Holes]

Looking at a gh 1 frame that has had a dent pushed up to far. The barrel is slightly raised. Can it be pushed back down. Thanks Dave

[Bruce Day]

Yes. Any competant gunsmith can do that, but the gunsmith you choose should be more skilled than the one who turned the dent into a bulge.
The trouble with a bulge is that it must be hammered down, which leaves marks on the barrel and then the barrel should be re-browned if you don't want the marks to show. With a dent, just raising it is usually all that is required with no refinishing. The bulge is probably a result of an overzealous user with a hydraulic dent raiser. Hydraulics have a lag time.

Bruce Day, Parker enthusiastic know-nothing

[Richard Flanders]

If you find someone with the right set of pin gages they can put that bulge back down to where it will be barely, if at all, noticeable. I use a leather or a plastic hammer for that and it doesn't leave any marks at all. I experimented with my pin gages on a pretty dented up Ithaca Flues damascus barrel and was amazed at what I was able to make completely disappear.

[David Holes]

Thanks Richard & Bruce. The bad news is that someone touched it with a file after they over raised it. The good news is they didn't get to carried away. Brad could probably make it disappear, but the gun is a very nice original 1904 gh. I am not sure I want to refurbish it, but just touch it up. Pictures on GB 258608439.

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

Richard: What is a pin gauge and what else is it used for. Thomas

[David Holes]

I made a pin gauge out of a 1/2 inch craftsman deepwell socket, added 2 pieces of painters tape and tapped into place on inside of bore. Used a plastic headed hammer, a piece of leather and a jenga block of wood that was laying around. Played with it until I could not feel the raise any longer and worked on smoothing out the previous workers tool marks. It is still noticable, but good enough that I can live with for a while. Dave

[Dave Suponski]

David, How far from the breech is this dent?

[Dave Suponski]

David, How far from the breech is this dent? Pin gauges are commonly used in the machining /toolmaking trade. They come in increments of .001" and are used for checking bore diameters and have several other uses in the inspection of machined parts.

[Robert Rambler]

Thomas, Here's a set of pin gauges. I use this set to measure 10ga bores/chokes and remove barrel dents.

[David Holes]

The dent was about in the center in the 28 in. barrels. I used Richards leather idea and was impressed how well it worked.

[Richard Flanders]

Sounds like you used a hammer and a piece of leather. Hard belt leather I assume? That should work well. I use a small hammer with a hard rawhide head, originally made for leather tooling I think. You'll never mar a barrel with leather or smooth plastic as long as you make sure there are no steel chips in your leather piece or the leather hammer head. The little brass handled hammer with screw-on brass/plastic/steel hammer face that Lyman markets works very well also. It's easy to spot small steel chips in the white plastic and you can reface it if necessary.

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

Robert: I now know what a pin gauge is so thanks for that and nice pictures by the way. Thomas

[Dennis V. Nix]

I try to learn something new every day and today I not only heard of a pin gauge but also was able to learn what they look like like and how they are used. Thanks to all for the lesson. It is always a pleasure to read the posts on the Parker forum and learn something new. Plenty of wonderful people here, that is for sure.

[Mark Landskov]

Robert, that is a fine set of gages! Exactly what the 10 gauge fan needs. I can see where they would be ideal 'anvils' for removing a bulge, but how do you raise a dent? Do you lube up the gages and drive them with an oak rod, or somesuch? With your set, you can start out small and raise it a little at a time. Cool!

I will have to check my Grainger catalog!

[Richard Flanders]

Mark: you have it right. You start with the first gage that will 'stick' at the dent, drive it in to where the dent is in the middle then tap around the edges of the dent with the plastic or leather hammer until the gage loosens then slide it out and go to the next size up and do it again until you have it where you want it. I do lightly lube the gages also. Care is needed to make sure you only tap the barrel where the gage is; if you tap past either end you'll dent the bbl, so you need to know the exact limits of the gage. To get the gage to where you want it in the barrel, you figure it out on the outside of the bbl then mark your dowel with tape and tap the gage in until the tape is at the breech.They come with very sharp edges so I bevel them on my grinder and polish the edge with an ez lap diamond steel so that they don't cut or mar any metal when they encounter the dent. They could easily do that if the dent is severe enough. Slow and easy and cautious is the order of the operation so as to "do no harm". If you google 'pin gages' you'll get tons of hits so they're no problem to find. I think my set only cost $54 but you can pay way more than that. Rutland Tool is a good supplier for all sorts of tools and tooling; They 're not the cheapest but they have the most complete supply of hardware and tools I've ever seen.

[Robert Rambler]

Mark, Richard has given an excellent discription of how to use a pin gauge. A slight taper ground and polished on one end is required as well as a good lube.
I must confess that I use this set mostly to measure bore diameter since purchasing a 12ga hydraulic dent remover.By adding a brass shim under the anvil of a 12ga dent remover you can also do 10ga. It is a slow and somewhat tedious process useing plugs to remove a dent,but it's an operation that requires care/patience anyway. They also beat spending 100's of $ for a hydraulic unit if you only have one or two barrels to do.They can be found on ebay fairly cheap if you watch.Here's an example.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/M2-Minus-Plug-Pin-Gage-Gauge-Set-0-251-0-500-250-Pcs-/390367817159?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae3bc2dc7

[Mark Landskov]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/330645360674?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648

Whillikers! Check this one out! I would bet that a brand new Starrett set would not cost ten grand! E-Bay has lots of inexpensive sets listed for less than $100.00.

[ed good]

have heard that a bulged barrel is a weaken barrel. pushing the steel back in place does not negate that and may in fact weaken it more? and, that it may bulge again the same place? your comments?

[David Holes]

I hope not but will find out , this is a joy to carry and shoot at 6.5 lbs. and perfectly balanced.

[Steve McCarty]

The dent was about in the center in the 28 in. barrels. I used Richards leather idea and was impressed how well it worked.

I have a nice Spanish double that had a pretty severe bulge in one barrel. I shot it that way for a few years, but it bugged me. It took me about three years to find a smith who'd removed the bulge and he did a fantastic job of it. Impossible to see where the bulge was. Then he opened the chokes from Very full and full to full and modified.

I think someone shot the gun with steel shot and it pushed out the barrel at the start of the choke....about 9" from the muzzle.

Here's my Spanish double. I think it is a 50's gun. :http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/GermVMA211/Gun%20Stuff/GunStuff020.jpg

[charlie cleveland]

i like this spanish gun...my dad has one that ive killed more turkeys with than any other gun...ive often thought id like a 20 ga in a spanish gun... i know im gonna get me one of them old richland 10 ga s.... charlie

[Steve McCarty]

The Spanish were copying the iconic Holland and Holland, and from across the room they look similar. They feel alike too. Quite light. Sometimes when I'm hunting someone asks, "Hey what kinda gun ya got there?" I look at the lock and say, "It's some sort of English maker. Let's see here.....ah, here it is, it says Holland and Holland." Big laugh. The gun cost me $450, but I had to put a few hundred in the barrel work. Had them blacked too. I like the gun. Yeah, it's my Holland and Holland wanna be!

[charlie cleveland]

i guess my little stevens 311 is about as close to a holland and holland as i ll get...some of the old spanish guns are really good guns... charlie

[wayne goerres]

May I suggest ENCO for your pin gauges. You can get a set with a fairly wide range made in china cheaply. If you have to grind a bevel on them it wont hurt as much. By the way, don,t get them to hot grinding the chinese steel can lose its hardness fairly quickly.

[James J. Roberts]

I use expanding dent plugs I got from Frank Mittermeier gunsmith supplies there made of bronze and will not mar the bores 12,16 and 20 gauge never had a problem raising dents never used hydraulic dent raiser Brownell's sells them at $450.00 per gauge. J.J.

[Brian Dudley]

If it was hit with a file, then you are going to want to check the wall thickness in that spot.

[David Holes]

I have shot that set of barrels hundreds of rounds and plan on shooting it more. That gun has become my magic wand on doves and other flying objects. I recently pick up a ph 16 ,1 frame and the barrels fit it like a glove. I have patterned them but not hunted them. When I start selling off this will be one of the last to go. The 14 guage you checkered is finally coming together. Barrels should be back today from Brads shop. Thanks again for the wonderful job you did on that checking. Dave

[Steve McCarty]

I have a Spanish double that had a large bulge at about where the choke starts. I shot it a few times with that bump up there, but it bothered me so I took it to Keith Kearcher and he hammered it out and reblacked the barrels and now that guns looks great.

(I would post a pic, but I have forgotten how to do it!!)

[David Holes]

Both of the chambers on the 14 ga. had been reamed out to a 12 ga. and both were bulged. When the barrels came back from Brads the bulge was gone, like they never existed. It is now chambered as a 20 ga.

[Craig Budgeon]

Enco was bought out by MSC more than a year ago. Prices have risen considerably.