"Twist" vs. "Plain Twist"

[Jeff Mayhew]

Did some searching through FAQs and damascus websites, and probably am missing this information already recorded somewhere. If so, I apologize.

Can somebody explain the difference between "twist" and "plain twist?" I ask specifically in the context of Parker guns. At first I made the assumption that "plain twist" was a subset of "twist," but this cannot be true if, as the PCGA home page indicates, Parker made 5,122 "twist" barreled guns and 49,317 "plain twist" units.

Is there a difference in construction? The quality of the steel used? Both? Is it just a naming convention that changed (i.e. a distinction based on the words inscribed in the top rib)? Sounds like "twist" came first; is it inferior to "plain twist?"

Thanks in advance! And a general thank-you to all of the experts who contribute their expertise to this forum so generously.

[Drew Hause]

Most barrels marked Twist are "Plain Twist", also called "English Twist" (even if made in Belgium) and "Skelp" (if made in England; and Greener called them "Wire Twist")...unless they are "Stub Twist"...which are different :banghead:
It's sorta one of those 'I know what it is when I see it' deals :rolleyes:
See http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/17227428
and https://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dfg2hmx7_40dxk2scc7
and some of those "Twist" barrels could have been made by Parker
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dfg2hmx7_1742r4n6vcz

Just don't confuse them with "Faux Twist"..............Sorry :)

[Bill Murphy]

I didn't even try to decipher Reverend Drew's links. I am tired from stacking wood and just can't do it. However, twist is twist in Parker shotguns, in my opinion. Unless you are as interested in details as much as Drew and I are, it just doesn't make much if any difference. Again, in my opinion, "twist" no matter what the exact description, is safe to shoot with proper loads if in good condition with good wall thickness.

[Brad Bachelder]

"Twist Barrels" include several different variations and qualities. The best quality Twiwt seems to be "English Twist", made in Belgium. These tubes exibit the highest wire count with the least Butt welds. Baker used these tubes extensively.
Parker twist barrels are very high quality. The lower wire count was compensated by barrel wall thickness.
A major factor that we consider in rating twist quality is annular pitting. When pitting follows the weld lines it would indicate to me poor welds or lower quality Iron. This type of pitting is prevelant in stub twist and lower quality tubes.
The major manufacturers used the best quality, lesser manufacturers poor quality tubes. You got what you paid for.

Brad

[Drew Hause]

"You got what you paid for."

Well said and THAT would be the bottom line - pattern welded barrel quality should be evaluated based on the quality of the gun.

[Jeff Mayhew]

"You got what you paid for."

Well said and THAT would be the bottom line - pattern welded barrel quality should be evaluated based on the quality of the gun.

Thanks guys. This is consistent with a conversation I had a while back with a collector friend of mine (who is far more knowledgeable about these old guns than I am) about whether my old coach gun could be safely fired with light BP shells. After some discussion about barrel composition & thickness, bore conditions and lockup, he asked "What make of gun is it?" When I said "Parker" his response was "Oh, then you shouldn't have any problems with it."

Once again, my appreciation for your expert input. Great forum!

[Mark Landskov]

Here is an example of Baker twist on my 1893 'New Baker' 10 gauge.

[Mark Landskov]

These are 1877 (possibly Parker-made) 'Plain Twist' barrels restored by Mr. Bachelder.

[charlie cleveland]

mighty nice pattern on them barrels no wander every body back inolden times bought those prety guns..... charlie

[Jack Kuzepski]

Brad,

How would you rate Parkers Stub Twist barrels?

Jack Kuzepski

[Brad Bachelder]

Jack, I have only seen a handful of Parker stub twist barrels. Most have been heavily pitted and not shootable. The average barrel wall thickness of stub twist is less that plain or twist barrels. I would say have them checked out before using.

Brad

[Paul Harm]

Brad, you did my Parker lifter, 4402, that has stub twist. You should have pics of that one. It's a walking billboard of your work - very, very nice. Still have to get that Remington C grade with a loose rib over to you to fix. Paul

[ed good]

have heard twist is stronger than damascus and that laminated is even stronger? your thoughts?

[Paul Harm]

I believe the twist is the weakest, then damascus and laminate. If you think of the way they're made there's longer weld joints in the twist, not counting the final weld putting the ribbon togeather. Paul

[Drew Hause]

Here you go Paul
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dfg2hmx7_242cxhh9hfq

However, pattern welded barrels should be assessed based on the quality of the gun, not the pattern.

[charlie cleveland]

my old 8 ga parker with cut off barrels are stub twist as brad said they are uaally heavilly pitted mine are but they are very thick ive shot several loads through this old gun...i always amazed at how tight these old guns are after all the years..... charlie

[Paul Harm]

Thanks again to Dr. Hause - let's just say I " feel " that a barrel with a bunch of small, short welds would be a stronger barrel. I shoot stub twist, pattern, and laminate barrel guns three times a week [ one or the other ] without worry. Paul