A great thread on shooting damascus barrels with nitro powders

[Pete Lester]

This is a very long and thoroughly informative read on the subject of shooting damascus barrels with nitro powder shells. I don't know who Bob S. is but he writes with intelligence and has done his homework. Again this is very long but if you read the whole thing you will find great reinforcement that shooting nitro in Damascus poses no issues. Enjoy

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=259371&hilit

[Bill Murphy]

That thread is much like watching a professional wrestling match after three martinis. I would rather reread Sherman Bell than the linked thread. Sherman says it like it is without the bickering.

[Pete Lester]

That thread is much like watching a professional wrestling match after three martinis. I would rather reread Sherman Bell than the linked thread. Sherman says it like it is without the bickering.

That's fine. I can't compare the two because I have never watched a wrestling match and don't drink beyond a beer once in awhile to be social.
To me there was not that much bickering, he countered opposing opinions for the most part with critical thought and supporting info. He reinforced SB's work with other information and his own experiences with such matters. I found it interesting and thought I would share with others.

[Robin Lewis]

Pete,
I too found it interesting on several fronts; the technical data, historically information and the current view of damascus=(wall hanger) and it all adds to the topic and provides more talking points for the "personal decision" to shoot or not to shoot damascus. Even though I made my decision years ago, I still like to see this once in a while.

[Steve McCarty]

If so many people are shooting damascus barrels, then why aren't we hearing more about failures?

[Dave Suponski]

Steve, Many of us on here shoot our composite barrelled(damascus,twist,bernard) Parker's both in the field and at clay's with appropriate loads.

[Richard Flanders]

Seems like the damascus controversy is alive and well on the ShotgunWorld forum, eh? Pretty fun read. Sure gets some of the guys fired up.

[Steve McCarty]

I just posted over there on Shotgun World. I've been there for a few years.

I've been a reloader for decades, but have never reloaded shotshells. I'm going to buy a Lee Load All and give it a whorl. I'll follow the instructions and load appropriate shells. I'd like to charge some shells with some non-toxic shot of somekind. Bizmuth? What do you guys use for non-toxic shot in your old Parkers?

The barrels on my GH look almost new and show no rust. LOP is perfect for me.

[Steve McCarty]

That thread is much like watching a professional wrestling match after three martinis. I would rather reread Sherman Bell than the linked thread. Sherman says it like it is without the bickering.

I followed Bell's articles in DGJ with interest. He said that he was going to test wall hangers and then he took pictures of the guns all lined up. While a few were indeed dogs some looked pretty non-wall hangerish to me.

He did an excellent job documenting his efforts and it wasn't easy to get any of the guns to let go, but some eventually did, but only after huge overloaded proof test loads were used.

As I was reading Bell's articles I kept thinking, Why am I always told to NEVER shoot damascus guns with other than BP loads? Others obviously do.

I called Martin Rettings, who sell old guns and have for decades from their store in Culver City, CA. They told me that "directly from the NRA" that it is not safe to shoot damascus barrels since there can be microscopic rust that develops within the welds and that all damascus barrels grow weaker and weaker over time. Then the fellow said, "But lots of guys do it."

So it is a personal choice to shoot or not to shoot and I've made a personal choice to shoot my GH. I can't wait!

Have any of you folks ever heard of one letting go?

[Steve McCarty]

Here is my little Hardy Bros muzzle loader that I overloaded so severly 50 years ago. I have no idehttp://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/GermVMA211/Firebuck%20Fowler/Muzzleloadingshotguns003.jpga who made the gun, but the reader can see that it is a very nice little shotgun. Very light and fast with excellent bores. I haven't shot it for years, but this year may.

[Dean Romig]

Have any of you folks ever heard of one letting go?

Not without a barrel obstruction of some sort.

[charlie cleveland]

nice looking little gun.. what ga is it...i too shoot damascus and twist steel guns...have probably fierd around 500 rounds through a 8 ga parker lifter gun using blue dot powder with no problems..it has stub twist barrels...ive never had a damascus or twist steel barrel let me down but i had a 28 ga remington barrel come apart at the forearm... charlie

[Paul Harm]

Well, let's see - the British have shot damascus guns forever. They still proof them. If they were unsafe they would have quit a long time ago. They rust from within ? ? Thought rust needed oxygen - so they're not going to rust from within, but on the surface. So no, they won't get weaker over time unless you can see the surface rust going down in enough to make the barrels unsafe. I blew one up, but it was because I made a mistake - had some PB left in the bottle and thought it was Pyrodex. Only took about 4 shots with 94grs of PB. Anyway, I still shoot damascus barrel guns, have 11 of them, and shoot clay birds 3 times a week - all with nitro powders - although not quite as much. Think about it - if pressures are kept around BP pressures, how could damascus barrels be unsafe ? A heavy BP shotgun load would be 7, maybe 8000psi. There are many nitro loads for handloaders in that range. Sorry for the rant - just my opnion. Paul

[Richard Flanders]

94gr of PB...? That would definitely do it Paul. I'm surprised it took 4 shots. That alone is a testament to the abuse that at least that set of damascus tubes would withstand.

[Paul Harm]

I was very lucky it only took 23 stiches to stick a piece of skin back on my arm. Guess it's true - if it blows in the chamber there's too much pressure ; blows down the barrel it's an obstruction. I had a shell sticking out the barrel. Paul

[ed good]

keep your loads light and your screws tight...and remember, the wood is the most fragile part of any gun...the older the wood the more fragile it is...

[charlie cleveland]

i too shoot a lot of old wire twist stub twist damascus and so on brands of barrels...some with super heavy loads some with lite loads never a problem....like s been said up to the individual...you can look at it or shoot it up to the guy who looks after his gun.... charlie

[Steve McCarty]

I have been reading all of Sherman Bell's articles in DGJ that I can find in my 15 year collection of those fine magazines. He did his best to blow damascus guns up and without an obstruction and even with heavy proof loads and more the damascus tubes stood up as well as any others.

He also said that early smokless powder, which according to him started being loaded in 1863, could be loaded with an old BP powder scoop. Then they introduced a Unique like powder which when loaded with an old BP scoop produced a shell that delivered 60,000 psi! Those modern smokless proof loads deliver 18,000 psi. So when using BP reloading equipment the newer smokless powder around 1900 blew any shotgun to smitherienes.

Many people shoot their old damascus guns just as if it was a fluid steel shotgun and they do just fine. Will I? Well, no. But I will shoot light loads with confidence. I will lay off of heavy, high base 1 7/8 ounce loads. While I think they'd shoot just fine...well....I don't want to take a chance with my life and limbs. If I want to shoot a cannon, I'll shoot my Browing Gold which will handle a 3" shell. I think we should treat our antique shotguns like we treat antique ladies; they can't do what they did in their 20's.

[Steve McCarty]

I just read an article in a new issue of Sporting Classics. about one of the English proof houses. Those guys "proof" everything that shoots, from machine guns to old shotguns.

When proofing a shotgun they started with a detailed visual inspection. It took a worker four years of study to be qualified to make visual inspections! So, it is harder to do than it looks. The author said that if the gun passes the visual inspection they almost always pass the shooting part of the test. I think the proof master said he had seen one or two let go after 18 years of working there. Success rate was way better than 99%. I'll find the article around here someplace so I can reference it.

[Paul Harm]

It's in the Jan/Feb issuse of the " Shooting Sportsman ". Was very interesting. Paul

[Steve McCarty]

It's in the Jan/Feb issuse of the " Shooting Sportsman ". Was very interesting. Paul

Hmmmm;guess I got the magazines mixed up.:vconfused: