Roll crimping Federal paper

[Forrest Grilley]

I'm hoping someone might be able to give me a little advice. I just picked up some Federal paper hulls that I plan to roll crimp. I tried some practice crimps with my usual drill press mounted crimper, and a couple of my antique hand operated bench closers, and didn't have very good results. The mouth of the shell that has been previously fold crimped seems to have been weakened, and when I try to roll crimp it it wants to collapse upon itself. To me it seems like it needs to be retreated with wax somehow to stiffen it again.

I thought about trimming them, but I will be loading with black powder and card wads in a gun with 2 3/4" chambers and don't want my cards to jump a 1/4"-3/8" gap if I can help it. Anyone have a trick for roll crimping these hulls?

[Keith Parrish]

You may want to do a search here on the site. I thought someone posted a trick on rewaxing these paper shells and heating them to get them to crimp better. If I might ask where did you pick up these papers? I am looking for some paper shells to give them a try on my roller....

[Forrest Grilley]

You may want to do a search here on the site. I thought someone posted a trick on rewaxing these paper shells and heating them to get them to crimp better. If I might ask where did you pick up these papers? I am looking for some paper shells to give them a try on my roller....

Picked them up from Ballistic Products. They also sell new Cheddite paper hulls which since they are new, crimp great. The only difference is the Cheddite hulls have a plastic base wad which I don't want to load blackpowder in. For smokeless they work fine.

I did a search on this topic but nothing jumped out at me. I'll try paging through some of the various threads, it might be buried in a topic that isn't directly related.

[Forrest Grilley]

Yup, found the info I needed. It was in a thread titled "Roll Crimping Tools". Got my cheap curling iron on it's way already.

[Keith Parrish]

Have not the courage to try Blackpowder yet for I do use my reloads in my newer shotguns.

Would there be any repercussions on firing a blackpowder charge in say a rem pump or a savage?? I am intersted in trying this out.

I will order some of the paper shells my local gun stores don't sell the paper rounds ( I have made numerous request for a couple of cases of paper shells and they refuse to order these) I may have to resort to an online purchase. I like the looks of the RST's paper and have heard great reviews about this line of shell but nothing of reloading these.

[Forrest Grilley]

There is nothing inherently wrong about using blackpowder in most guns. The only drawback there might be to shooting it in a pump or auto, is that it may be more difficult to clean properly. In a muzzleloader or double gun, the barrels are more easily cleaned as a self contained unit. There are more hard to reach crooks and crevices in the action of a modern pump gun, although most of the fouling "should" be contained within the barrel. An auto gun might be worse, and I don't know if I would ever try shooting blackpowder in one. Just too many places for fouling to get into.

One warning though, once you start loading blackpowder, you might never switch back to the new-fangled smokeless stuff, which is probably just a fad anyway :)

[Marc Retallack]

Keith, if you're looking for loaded Fed paper loads, Roger's seems to have the best price around on them http://www.rogerssportinggoods.com/index.php?route=product/product&manufacturer_id=42&product_id=347 Also, Federal is running a $2.00 box rebate.

Cheers
Marcus

[John Farrell]

If the Fed papers have been reloaded a couple of times you do have to rewax the mouths to stiffen them. Remember to stand them up in the 170 degree heated oven to allow the excess wax to flow off them. JF

[Paul Harm]

John Browning thought his greatest actomplishment was the Auto-5. Black Powder or Nitro could be used. Even a cut shell should work with the old SxS's as most have a short forcing cone. Measure how long the forcing cone is and see how high the wad column is- you may get by. Paul

[Paul Harm]

I never had much luck trying to roll crimp a paper shell that had been star crimped- just cut that part off.

[John Farrell]

Addition to my post about standing the rewaxed hulls in a 170 degree oven to allow the excess wax to flow off the hull. Stand the hull mouth down in this operation. I stand mine in a 50 shell plastic holder from the MTM Molded Products Co. Put the shell holder in the oven, then put the hulls into the device and turn on the oven to 170. You only need 10 minutes or so in the oven. JF

[Forrest Grilley]

Re-waxed a bunch of my Federal paper hulls last night, and the curling iron technique worked perfectly. I found it easiest to hold the handle of the curling iron in my work bench vise that way I had two hands free to handle the hulls and wax. I pushed the hull onto the curling iron with my right hand and slowly rotated it while holding the edge of the wax block against it with my left hand. The "Gulf Wax" blocks are about a 1/2" wide and are the perfect width to treat the area of the hull affected by the previous fold crimp.

After a few seconds of rotating the hull with the wax held against it, the wax would melt into the paper. After doing a few hulls you quickly learn just how much wax to melt onto the hull, it actually goes fairly quickly. I let a few cool and tried them in my bench turnover tool. It produced beautiful roll crimps! Now onto loading them up with black powder.

[John Farrell]

Before you get the hulls reloaded, try them in your gun to assure that they are going in easily. Too much wax on the hull and they get sticky in the chamber. That is the reason for oven warming them mouth down to allow any excess wax to flow off them and be absorbed by the paper towel they are standing on.

Wait a minute, I forgot to mention the paper towel in my previous diatribes on rewaxing. OOPS! :banghead:

[Forrest Grilley]

Will do John. Thanks for posting the technique on how to re-wax these hulls, it works like a charm.

[Steve Havener]

Re-waxed a bunch of my Federal paper hulls last night, and the curling iron technique worked perfectly.

Forest the curling iron works great to "re-condition" plastic hulls too.

It works especially good to open up the mouths or Remington 16 gauge game loads which uses a cheaper grade of plastic than the Express, Gun Club and other premium Remington hulls.

[John Farrell]

OK - this is positively my last comment on roll crimping. After this, everything I have worked out in my 80 years has been published, and hopefully, the world is a better place.

When you start roll crimping the plastic hulls, it pays to have the roll crimper in your hand drill or the old fashioned clamp-on style a little warm. I keep a propane torch handy, flaming of course, and I apply a little flame to warm up the crimping tool. When you hit the plastic hull it warms quickly and will fold over more better.

'nuff said. JF:bigbye:

[Keith Parrish]

NO JOHN FARRELL YOU CAN'T RETIRE YET.

It took alot of trial and error before figuring that out. I then got the wifes blow dryer to start things off and gave me enuff heat to heat my ole roll crimper.

You should post more and spread the knowledge!!!!

[John Farrell]

As a result of the overwhelming appeal from the roll crimping fraternity, I am going to divulge the absolute last roll crimping secret that has been held close to the vest for many years by myself and certain members of my coterie in whom I trust my most cherished secrets.

To avoid the open flame to heat the roll crimping tool, when dealing with loaded hulls, the alternative is to have an ordinary household electric iron - heated - lying on its side. Position the hand drill with the nose of the roll crimper against the heated flat side or just lay the roll crimper on its side on the iron while getting the next hull into position for the crimping operation. That will provide sufficient heat to start the plastic hulls rolling into a fine crimp. JF :bigbye:

[charlie cleveland]

thanks john for the tips... nothing like using anothers trade secrets saves a lot ofwasted efforts on things i dabble at... thanks charlie

[Don Kaas]

Actually, as in most things since the 19th century, "there is a tool for this". Texan made a deprimer/resizer/electrically heated reconditioner for paper shells. I bought mine on eBay and it worked great the few times I used it with Federal papers. I bought because of the problem you described when using my hand operated roll crimpers.

[charlie cleveland]

my first time to see one of these... thanks charlie