Help ID-ing older hammer Ithaca 10 bore

[Francis Morin]

sn is 97247 and ALL numbers match- forearm iron, watertable and barrel flat- 32" Twist uncut barrels, will clean out the "Black Lab retrieving a dead crow in a coalmine at midnight" powder reside- then hang and ring test and mike wall thickness at breech and muzzles- McIntoshy's 1989 book- Best Guns- shows the first series Baker Ithacas as a boxlock outside hammer gun- with last sn aprox72xxx in 1889- Could this be the next series Crass- A-10 for Grade and Gauge stamped on the water table, possibly it is marked "New Ithaca Gun"replacement butt-stock and forearm, original period Black gutta-perchy- BP- ITHACA GUN CO

Some numbnut etched his ss number on the receiver- and the tangs do not fit right to the stock- so I will strip it down and clean it- and most likely offer it for sale as a "parts gun" the barrels and then the locks and hammers being the "main items" I should - follow up- barrels clean and clear, all "coal dust" swabbed out- No dents or dings and they ring well when suspended by lug and tapped with wooden dowel rod- Galazan step choke gauge shows Full in both barrels-rib is file cut and matted, brass front bead- very heavy breech walls-extractors slide back and out freely- receiver- with a pine block against the face and the hammers cocked, both firing pins dent the wood- triggers crisp and sears holding at full cock- barrels on face and removal of trigger guard bow shows same serial number in the inletted groove in the POW (uncapped grip) My guess- stock was refinished, no checking, and then re-installed- but just a SWAG for now-may ask Brad Bachelder to look at it for more clarification, then it goes up for sale here--addendum: No dents or dings ribs intact, original chokes- 32" dead money- uncut. Barrels weigh 5 lbs. 2 oz.- NO markings on flats or ribs as to patent date or proofs- Just the serial number on the front lug radius- wall thickness at breech both tubes- .3100" and at muzzles ..0720"--I believe this is a late (1899) Baker hammer New Ithaca Gun- not a Crass or Lewis-wish I had a copy of the Snyder book on Ithacas- "The red-headed stepchild" of the American double guns for reference- Once I have finished cleaning it up, I'll post it for sale on our PGCA sector with appropriate fotos- made prior to 1896- so no FFL required to ship and transfer--

[Milton Starr]

So it doesn't shoot? I found a baker 10 ga hammergun for 1500$ im lookin at getting. Waiting to hear back on the bore conditions

[Francis Morin]

So it doesn't shoot? I found a baker 10 ga hammergun for 1500$ im lookin at getting. Waiting to hear back on the bore conditionsI tested the sears and hammer-firing pins- they are spring loaded and are the rebounding lock type- I didn't weigh the trigger pulls, but can-- I test fired each lock with a piece of pine against the breech face, and both firing pins penetrated the wood to about 3/32" (est'd) depth- this gun was in storage for years, all the serial numbers match every where- even on the buttstock at the grip inletting, and on the back side of the trigger guard bow- all screws and BP and front sight are original- NO dents, dings or loose ribs and both barrels (after I swabbed them out with Hoppe's No 9 and also a bronze bristle barrel brush-) shine like mirrors- I will re-assemble it, the top tang is a bit "proud" of the stock so I will deepen that recess to get a flush fit, and get some fotos posted for you and my pal Charlie- I do not have any BP 2 & 7/8" paper shells to test fire it, but if you decide to buy it- you may test fire it with those loads- the wall thickness at breech and the 32" taper to the muzzles is substantial- the barrels weigh 5 lb. 2 oz- and have good brown and grey swirl patina-Do you have a small lad with a wheelbarrow handy to carry it to your deer stand or turkey blind for you- it is heavy, as are all 10 hammer Twist barreled doubles- but has good balance-and the chokes and chambers have not been altered- and it will cost you less than the other hammer 10 gauge you are looking at in the $1500 range. 100% return for refund (less shipping insured) as long as it is in the same condition as it was when I send it your way- does the other party with the $1500 gun offer that warranty? I hope so- I stand behind 100% everything I offer for sale on the PGCA Forum- NQA- whether it is a recoil pad, a used buttstock or a complete gun-let me know what your thoughts are--at your convenience of course--:bigbye::bigbye::bigbye:

[Francis Morin]

Or, for that matter, a Butcher or a Candle-stick Maker either. Good friend and Master Gunsmythe Brad B. ID'd this as a Ithaca NIG A grade and the serial number makes it 1904- So, when it goes up for official sale (with fotos) as it was made after 1896- need to ship via FFL route- price will be close to 4 figures (the barrels are without pits, dents or dings and the mechanicals are correct too) and a five day shooting with BP short 10 gauge loads inspection return option will come with- stay tuned for more details-

This has the rear mounted hammers- like the Baker Ithaca Mike McIntosh shows in his 1989 book "Best Guns" but it also has the curved "Ram's horn" side bolsters as do the hammerless Crass series Ithacas- a "puzzlement" to me, not being an Ithaca-er-- but if anyone in my ken knows, it would be Brad-:bigbye::bigbye:

[Milton Starr]

This is the sellers bore description



E BORES DOE HAVE SOME PITTING. IT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE THERE ARE ANY EXTREME PITTS, BUT THERE IS A FAIR AMOUNT OF IT. IT LOOKS AS IF IT COULD BE HONED OUT TO A LARGE EXTENT. I BELIEVE THAT THE BARRELS ARE THICK ENOUGH FOR IT TO BE OF LITTLE CONSEQUENCE AS FAR AS STRENGTH IS CONCERNED. IF I WERE GOING TO USE IT FOR A SHOOTER MYSELF, I WULD LEAVE THEM ALONE

[Francis Morin]

This is the sellers bore description



E BORES DOE HAVE SOME PITTING. IT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE THERE ARE ANY EXTREME PITTS, BUT THERE IS A FAIR AMOUNT OF IT. IT LOOKS AS IF IT COULD BE HONED OUT TO A LARGE EXTENT. I BELIEVE THAT THE BARRELS ARE THICK ENOUGH FOR IT TO BE OF LITTLE CONSEQUENCE AS FAR AS STRENGTH IS CONCERNED. IF I WERE GOING TO USE IT FOR A SHOOTER MYSELF, I WULD LEAVE THEM ALONE-- Milton- for what's it worth in passing- honing any ID cylinder even with a pilot to allow for "out of round" can have its hazards- but the laps of iron and steel forge welded to make these older barrels- rather than the continuous metallurgy of a lathe turned proof steel barrel from a blank- I'll defer to others who have worked with Twist/Damascus barrels, but remember this- older BP shells developed their greatest pressure curve in the initial breech area- later smokeless shotgun powders have lengthened that pressure curve somewhat-the RST engineers have really been a asset to those of us who enjoy shooting the older fine doubles, no matter the gauge- Pitting can cause a barrel to fail in that area, just as a slag inclusion can cause a weldment to fail under load stresses. FYI!!:bigbye::bigbye:

[Milton Starr]

have any pictures of the ithaca you been talking about ? i would probably just have the gun cleaned up by a professional alittle bit . but i doubt ill get it . their layaway is 1/3 over 60 days . i usually do 20% on 60 or 90 days and plus the guy im buying my ithaca from does a 20% on 60 layaway his name is steve bernett fine guns . he said he can also find something if i want also .

[Francis Morin]

I have stripped and cleaned this 10 gauge hammer Ithaca- looks good for a gun made around 1904- barrels clean and bright with no pits- What will keep this gun I have from being into a four figure price range are the following noted flaws: (1) The forearm iron- the J spring that keeps the forearm in place is missing the leaf spring and the set screw- may well be the same as for an LC Smith hammer gun, so not impossible to get. (2) someone electro-etched a seven digit series of numbers on the left barrel side of the receiver- just below the banner that is lettered "New Ithaca Gun"- also there are two initals etched on the front bottom section of the receiver- (3) the gun locks up and the barrels are "on face" but the top lever will move past the center line of the top tang when the gun is closed- I have NOT taken the receiver or locks apart (that's for an expert gunsmith) the lug and tapered bolt seem OK by visual inspection, perhaps it is the spring that drives the bolt into the lug pocket that needs replacing- not sure-

I have fotos of the gun apart in the four basic component groups- buttstock and the inletted areas and the head- no cracks or splits-also shows the original Ithaca logo black BP- the receiver with the hammer back at full cock- good trigger pulls and the sears lock the hammers at full cock- the splinter forearm- and fotos of the 32" barrels- will re-assemble and get more fotos, then will post them in the "For Sale Section" of our PGCA website forum--

If you mean Steve Barnett- he has a first class reputation- I'll take a look at his hammer guns listings and see what he has in 10 gauge hammer guns at present- I can't do a lay-away, terms are 100% payment by good check, insured shipping from a FFL to you or your FFL- 5 day inspection, return for full refund less shipping if not right NQA- fotos soon- if you'd like, I'll send you an e-mail and give you a "head's up" as to when I'll be posting the ad and fotos- thanks for your interest, Milt!!:bigbye::bigbye: