English gun makers - reputations

[Jack Cronkhite]

Let's say we are looking at a field grade basic English SXS.
As an opinion, how would you order this list. Best rep being #1

This is in random order, as I don't know them but have seen some and even purchased a Boswell hammer gun, just because it is pretty and different with its under-lever.

Thomas Bland and sons
W.P. Jones
Charles Boswell
Hardy Bros
BSA
Hunter and Sons (actually Irish from Belfast - just to clear that up and not cause an international incident)
Greener
Churchill
Charles Hellis and Sons

If you know others that are not listed and deserve top rating, please add.

[Theodore LeDurt]

Jack, not quite sure what you are asking, but the names omitted from your list probably exceed the number listed. If you are trying to compare quality in "gamekeeper" guns, good luck. The British trade made numerous B and C quality guns for the non rich. Many of these companies also made "best" grades. The difference is in finish and engraving, and most the barrels and actions were made by a few companies and only the finish work by the maker.

If they are still functioning and have stood the test of time (and have good barrel wall thickness), they will probably continue for years.

[Jack Cronkhite]

Thanks Theodore: The list is comprised of those I have recently seen on Canadian sites. Our market is quite different from yours. Even nice guns languish for sale over long periods and may not sell, even though they are listed well below your market, at auction or on-line. Interest in gun ownership here has waned significantly since the introduction of a variety of control measures in the 1990's. Our newly minted majority Conservative government will be eliminating the long gun registry but there remains a lot of bureaucracy to navigate regardless.

Should I encounter a nice English gun that is crying to get back to shooting upland and I also like the look of it, I'll take your assertion to heart:

If they are still functioning and have stood the test of time (and have good barrel wall thickness), they will probably continue for years.

Cheers,
Jack

[charlie cleveland]

jack i like the jp claybrough and sons...i have a 10 ga of this make with hammers that came from up in your neck of the woods...i bought it from a gent who had it for 40 years and he said the seller he bought it from was in his 90s and said it was his grandpas gun...the old gun was made in the 1870s still tite fair bores weighs 8 1/2 lbs with 32 inch barrels..its a real squirl killer...wood very good yet no cracks and tite and on face...workmanship has to be good to stand the test of time and this old gun has done this..... charlie

[Bill Murphy]

British guns are better bought for condition and low mileage than for name if you want your money back some day. Rattletraps tightened up by blacksmith methods will be impossible to sell by your heirs. Buy nameless guns in high condition and you will be rewarded when you sell. You will also not have to pay for needed repairs.

[charlie cleveland]

well said bill....but sometimes i just cant turn down that piece junk i should have left behind... charlie

[Francis Morin]

Jack, not quite sure what you are asking, but the names omitted from your list probably exceed the number listed. If you are trying to compare quality in "gamekeeper" guns, good luck. The British trade made numerous B and C quality guns for the non rich. Many of these companies also made "best" grades. The difference is in finish and engraving, and most the barrels and actions were made by a few companies and only the finish work by the maker.

If they are still functioning and have stood the test of time (and have good barrel wall thickness), they will probably continue for years. These fine London guns once 'ruled the roost' both here and over there for live bird shooters: W & C Scott, Purdey, Henry Aiken, Joseph Land, Westley Richards, Powell. I wish I hung on to my grandfather's 12 hammer Purdey live bird gun- he sent it back to London in July 1914 to be re-proofed for smokeless pigeon loads- bad timing- didn't get it back until 1922- "spot o'war, old chappie, ey wot?" With Canada part of the British Empire back then, I wonder how many of the fine London and Birmingham made double guns are extant in the great land of hockey, walleye, great beers and superb waterfowling--???:bigbye::bigbye:

[Jack Cronkhite]

I do keep seeing them crop up and more often than Parkers for sure. Without having them in hand, I have seen what appear to be VG or better. They range from 1K to 3K $$. I watch them sit around for months. Too many toys for my toy budget. Should I be looking at them as "investments" rather than toys?? Hmmmmmm.......
Cheers,
Jack

[Jack Cronkhite]

Here's one example. Asking 1500. Built around 1950. Looks decent without knowing important details (bwt) Don't know if that price is good/bad/indifferent. I would equate grade to a VH as an opinion. A VH in this condition would command a higher price I believe. Thoughts........

[Rich Anderson]

W&C Scott made the actions for many of the other manufacturers. They produced guns under their own name but also supplied actions for Thomas Bland, Westly Richards, Army Navy, Cogswell & Harrison, William & Powell ect. A westly Richards will bring a higher price than an Army Navy all things being equall because of their name. English box locks have come down in cost in recent years. Last year at the U.P. shoot I was considering a nice William & Powell 16ga damascuss gun. I spoke to Hugh Lomas a noted English gun smith who actually had sold the gun and it was he who told me this. The seller did manage to get his desired price but not from me.

I have heard of and seen guns from the following makers on your list. Thomas Bland, Charles Boswell, Greener, Churchill & Charles Hellis. They are all good names and as in everything condition is the deciding factor. There was a Thomas Bland 28 at the U.P. shoot this weekend listed as possibly unfired for $10,500. I believe the action is from W&C Scott.

Charlie I also have a JP Claybough 12ga hammer gun that I recently adopted at a shoot for under $800. I shot my best ever round of 5 stand with it this weekend. JP Claybough was an importer from San Fransisco who purchased English guns made under his name.

[Milton Starr]

Well the purdy I got to play with on the plantation didn't look like it was a 80k gun. It didn't.make.me drool.

Oh yell why leave.out cogswell&harrison they make custom guns I mean true custom not.custom "features ". Also of those you listed who is.still in business. I wish I could find someone to make a sxs.8 ga under 15k . Greener said a sxs 8 would run 300,000$ and a wouldn't be done till 2019 . Yeah I laughed hard to. I like the shotguns I seen on c&h website though.

[Francis Morin]

because a Churchill would be my first choice of all the "Best" London guns- The family was involved in shooting- live birds, clays, game on the wing- I also like the Churchill method of leading a crossing bird- at least the way I have understood it- you move ahead of the bird's head and with the muzzles moving, shoot- And McIntosh in his Shotgunning books details the 16 yard precise targeting for proper gun fit- I have handled two Churchill Premiere sidelock 12 bores- both the XXV series- and with the exception that I'd prefer 28" barrels over the 25" XXV, straight grip, small forearm, solid red Silvers pad- heck, as long as we're dreaming here- make it a matched pair- 2.75" chambers proofed for 1 & 1/8 oz. game/target loads- and choked 1/4 right barrel and 1/2 choke in the left- file cut rib--:bigbye::bigbye:

[Milton Starr]

You know the.straight grip is something else. I've seen people shooting with regular pistol grip and maybe have a 20-30% hit ratio and switch over the the.english grip and have a 60-70% hit ratio. Me personally like the prince of wales grip.

[Francis Morin]

You know the.straight grip is something else. I've seen people shooting with regular pistol grip and maybe have a 20-30% hit ratio and switch over the the.english grip and have a 60-70% hit ratio. Me personally like the prince of wales grip.--My pre-1913 12 gauge L.C. Smiths have capped pistol grips, but are radiused more like a POW grip- than say a pistol grip on a 1955 era M21 with single trigger- The 1911 Ithaca Grade 1 20 I now have has a capped pg, but again, is a shallow radius- which I like- ditto the pre-1935 stock design on the 1932 mfg. M12 20 gauge my Dad gave me when I turned 11--

Now centerfire BA rifles- at least the Mauser98-1903-M-54 and later M7O Winchesters- with one trigger, I like the pre-WW2 design as to grip radius- Never have owned a Mannlicher with double set triggers, so I can't speak to that issue--:bigbye::bigbye:

[Rich Anderson]

I much prefer the straight grip, I think it's faster when your mounting the gun. You see very few English guns with a pistol grip stock.

[Milton Starr]

Well I think if its a.american ordering the.gun from say a maker.like.purdey it will probably have.a pistol grip. If the gun is being ordered for a brit then it will probably.have a straight grip. Never shot a gun with a straight stock .

[Rich Anderson]

The majority of my Parkers are straight grip guns. once you use one you won't want a PG gun again.

[Milton Starr]

I like.the way.the.straight stock looks.on.the. smaller gauges.like the 16 and 28 but on the.big bores I like.the way the.pistol grip looks