rem-umc No. 10 NEW CLUB

[Keith Parrish]

Fellas,

Went out to the old barn and found some paper shells 10 gauge Remington- UMC NEW CLUB (they read on the brass).

the one in the worst shape I split open I t was loaded with black powder and primers are small, (not a 209) and the brass has a star around the primer.

Could anybody please lead me to an aprox. (or latest) year these might have been produced?

I got 5 in good shape and also want to know what is the best way to store these beauties. I heard wraping them in a well drenched oil clothe will saturate the powder as so to enable any type of POW. any input would be greatly appreciated!!!

[Keith Parrish]

:shock:OH THEY ARE YELLOW:rotf:

[charlie cleveland]

just a guess but your shells are somewhere between 80 and 100 years old...as for displaying the shellsi would just wipe the dust off them and display themanywhere but direct sunlight..i mean like dont put them by a window that light would hit them....theres no way that i no of to keep black powder from seeping through and corroding the brass..other than removing the powder but then it wouldruin the shell in my opinion....you made a good find display them proudly not many people fortunate to find such gems.... charlie

[Mark Landskov]

The 'REM-UMC' headstamp came about in 1911 when the two merged. The yellow hull was probably gone by the mid to late 1920s. The primer is a 'No. 2', which was used in handgun and shotgun cartridges. A plain 'UMC' would be from the late 1880s to 1911. They are becoming very rare. Nice ones can easily sell for $10.00 to $20.00 on GunBroker! I recently bought a mint 'REM-UMC' 8 gauge 'Arrow' for $35.00. Every one of these old cartridges that are fired, or attempted to fire, just makes mine worth more. Please hang on to them. They are irreplaceable. Cheers!

[Keith Parrish]

Charlie,

2 of them have a running type of currosion right where the powder would be going to the brass i'm going to rub them with a lil oil to clean them a bit but like old coins i'm not going to clean them to a noticable account.

There are no markings or stamps on the sides as we see on the new shells which leads me to they are older than the green or black or blue rem's we see today.

[Mark Landskov]

The topwad will have the load data, IE: powder type and charge weight, shot size and charge weight, and manufacturer. The Remington star crimp arrived in the late 1930s and was covered with a paper circle with load data. I do not know when the load data moved to the side of the hull. Black powder exudate can be carefully scraped from the brass with an instrument made of copper or brass. Attempting to clean the paper hull with anything will result in ugly stains.

[Keith Parrish]

the over shot cards read REMINGTON UMC 4 1/2, 1 1/4, 6

THE STAR IS IN THE BRASS, AROUND THE PRIMER (NOT A STAR CRIMP).

AND the brass states NEW CLUB with a yellow paper hull.

O I DON'T plan on selling these.... just gifts for good friends!!

[Keith Parrish]

shot size 4 1/2 shot weight 1 1/4 dram weight 6?????

[Mark Landskov]

The topwad indicates 4-1/2 drams of black powder (or smokeless equivilent) with 1-1/4 ounces of number 6 shot. The 'star' I was referring to is what Remington caller their new crimping process in 1939 when the roll crimp was superceded. Many times, the powder type will be on the topwad, such as Infallible, Laflin and Rand, New Shultze, etc.

[Keith Parrish]

The topwad indicates 4-1/2 drams of black powder (or smokeless equivilent) with 1-1/4 ounces of number 6 shot. The 'star' I was referring to is what Remington caller their new crimping process in 1939 when the roll crimp was superceded. Many times, the powder type will be on the topwad, such as Infallible, Laflin and Rand, New Shultze, etc.

I don't see this on these but I'm going to go back out this weekend or next and see if there are any more there. Nice knowing that it is worth a short treck through the spiney thistle plants.

I just won a BGI 12 ga roll crimper on ebay. the older type, no drills just by hand. I'm going to give it a spin when I get it. I've goten sooo much info from Parkerguns.org I have to give it a try!!!

THANK YOU ALL!!!!

[Mark Landskov]

I have acquired some very nice specimens of antique loading tools. I tried a no-name 10 gauge 'roller' on a plastic hull and it produced a very nice crimp. When I start loading short tens, I will use it. It can be addicting, trust me. Cheers!

[Keith Parrish]

I can hardly wait probally coulda got it cheaper but the thing is brass and looked nicer than most I have seen.

Now I gota get some over shot cards I'm going to stick with green duster wads and am considering the clear osc's that fragment apart when fired

[charlie cleveland]

keith hope you find some more treasures out there in the thisles.... shell collecting can really become a bad habit like buying old parker doubles....charlie

[Keith Parrish]

Charlie,

Just acouple of weeks ago I was digging a trench trying to find our water pipe so the grader wouldn't bust it while fixing our drive way. but thats another story. I bumped something metal with me shovel and kinda looked like a gun part (I was hoping). the thing said "Benjiman Franklin" on the side and looked like some sort of barrel or reciever So I washed the mud off my find and brought it in. Low and Behold I dug up a 1935 Franklin air pistol chamber (that's the part just under the barrel). Half a foot later I found the pipe and didn't have to dig 20 feet like I thought i was going to have to. Well MR. Franklin brought me luck. It now sits on the shelf just above my reloader as does my newly found shells and will my roll crimper.

Historic pieces we find should be cherished as are my arrow heads I find every summer when I go back to the lil south Georgia town where I grew up and learned to appreciate what a great country we have here and will pass this knowledge on to my first born child due in AUG.

[Mark Landskov]

Good on ya, Keith! We all should feel the same way about preserving our heritage for our children. Congratulations on having your first child! I was on the Missouri playing tag with the Iranians, while they shot Kuwaiti tankers with our flags on them, when my first daughter was born. Within the next few days, she will be giving birth to my first grand-daughter (I have 2 grandsons) Uff Da! Time flies. Cherish it while you can. Collecting cartridges would be a neat thing to do with your son(?)

[Keith Parrish]

Son or daughter I will pass on what I have learned. For I just ask for a healthy baby and wife....

[charlie cleveland]

my congratulations on the upcoming event... i need you to come over and help me dig for gold your a lucky fellow.... charlie

[Keith Parrish]

Gold sounds good but... if not you could show me the roll crimper secrets you know. I'm a lil nervous at how they going to turn out but i'm just going to take it one at a time and ask questions when I run into problems.

First things first boys....

[Mark Landskov]

Keith, I had never used a roll crimper before, but it worked fine! I cleaned the machine real good before I used it to ascertain the integrity of the crimping head. I used the lever to force the shell into the head, turned the crank, and was astounded at the quality of my crimp. I am sure there will be a learning curve here, but I don't think I will ruin any hulls in the process once I start loading for real.

[Keith Parrish]

yea patience is what I have my first question is...

I have a 2 3/4" hull with an exsisting 6pt fold in the top, how much should I trim off??? I'm wana go with 7/8oz or 1oz 15-16 grn. 700x.

I know I wana take the pre star crimp off of the top or at least most of it.

[Mark Landskov]

If you remove 1/4", that should eliminate the original crimp folds and leave you with a perfect hull for rolling. I do not have any data for the 12 gauge, so I cannot verify your load. Your payload of shot should be fine for upland birds. I use RST shells with 7/8 ounce of 7-1/2 shot in my composite barreled 12s. It is fine for the Ruffed Grouse. Good luck!

[Keith Parrish]

Yes prepping my area while awaiting the arrival of my newest addition I have looked for some data for shorter length hulls in 12ga as I plan on using this size for the roll crimper.

Not planning on using the same charge for a lighter load thats for sure I imagine I wanna go at least 1 or 2 grain less than normal.

[Mark Landskov]

If my line of thinking is correct, data for 2-3/4" hulls and 1 ounce of shot should be fine insofar as powder type and charge. Theoretically, you would, or may have to shorten the one piece wad to allow crimping, which might reduce your payload. There are specific tables out there for short shells, probably due to the wad issues after trimming your hulls. I have the info for my short tens, but nothing for short 12s. Search the forum. There quite a few good threads on loading the short 12. I don't want to confound you with what I DON'T know!

[Keith Parrish]

Yes I'm going to. I have looked at the Hogdon data center site and they didn't test what powder I'm using on their shorts. Just know that I'm going to keep looking and should I not find it my common sense is telling me just to drop a light charge, pattern test it and go from there.