P-repro's, Need factual imput....

[Kenny Graft]

I have been working on a story about Parker Reproductions by Winchester. I would have had it finished by now but have run into conflicting information that I can't come to turms with...The big issue is with production numbers. Particularly the BHE grades, the 410 and 12 gauge guns. I have fairly complete to date info of existing 410 guns and possible factory documentations? I personally beleive that fewer guns were made than previously thought. I think the stated numbers were guns that were planed....not the guns that actualy were made! It was said that 100 BHE grade guns were made in each gauge. I have a copy of a letter dated May 1st 1995 that states 7 BHE gun were made...signed J.T. Skeuse Anyone who has info that would be of help or ownes one of the rare guns please send me a e-mail at,.... shooting-stars@comcast.net or give me a call 330-542-9435 at the gun shop in ohio 10-6 Personal info is never shared without permission!.....thanks Kenny Graft SXS ohio...(-:

[Robin Lewis]

Kenny,

You are correct, they planed to make 100 of each gauge but didn't build that many. My hunting partner has a BHE repro that he hunts with and the serial number is well above 7. I have been told that they did build 100 BHE's in both 12 and 20 gauge but the number of 28 and 410 gauge built are in the single numbers.

From comments made here on the forum and speaking with people who "may" know, I tabulated the production numbers that I put up on the repro section of our "Grades" page. If these aren't exact, I feel they are very close to the correct production numbers.

[Kenny Graft]

How do I get to the grades page?.....thanks kenny

[Robin Lewis]

Go to www.parkerguns.org (http://www.parkerguns.org) and on the left side there is a list of page links. Click your mouse on the one named "Parker Grades". I suggest you click on the buttons on that page and look around. All the Pictures and Reppro docs will enlarge when you click on them, better reading that way.

[Kenny Graft]

Thanks...I have the forums page book marked and the home page does not come up...thats were it was...(-: The numbers look close. I think only 320 16 barrel sets were made (two runs of 160) and way less 12 ga. guns than listed....Im sure 100 BHE 12 ga. did not get made. probably 10 or less...this is only my guess based on availibility, by how many show up for sale.....thanks SXS ohio....(-:

[Bill Murphy]

I've seen more than ten 12 gauge BHEs and I don't get out much. These total figures come largely from Mr. Skeuse. They're about as close as we're going to get.

[Robin Lewis]

Kenny,

Just some hard factual data on the BHE's; I have hunted with a Winchester Parker Reproduction BHE 12 ga serial number 12-00069. Their serial numbers are formatted as "gauge # - sequence #". So the one I hunted with is a 12 gauge and the 69th gun produced & numbered. So there are 69 BHE repros for sure and I am quite confident that they made all 100 in the 12 and 20 gauges.

[Kenny Graft]

Thats real good info...we need to build from that one...Keep track of each gun by S.N. and its specs. thanks SXS ohio

[Tom Pollock]

Kenny - I have a 12 gauge BHE two-barrel set, serial no. 12-0046. I've attached some pictures. Hope this helps with your research.

Tom

[MARK KIRCHER]

Kenny -
I traded away BHE 12 # 12-0073 back in 2004
It was a 2 barrel set - 26 & 28
Mark

[Jack Cronkhite]

Is a dhe two barrel 28 "rare" or not. For those in the know and if it were NIB, what would be approximate current value.
Cheers,
Jack

[Joe Bernfeld]

Jack, correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like a thread hijack :eek:! That said, I'd say $ 6-6,500, if you're talking about 28 gauge. Not terribly rare. Look on Gunsinternational or Gunbroker to get a better idea of asking prices.

[Jack Cronkhite]

I have been working on a story about Parker Reproductions by Winchester. I would have had it finished by now but have run into conflicting information that I can't come to turms with...The big issue is with production numbers. Particularly the BHE grades,..........

Not meant to hijack, rather gain an understanding of production numbers as it relates to reproductions, thus the question about "rarity" and DHE grade which I have recently seen offered in 28. However, asking the follow-up value question does smack of piracy. I'll take more care about hoisting the old skull and crossed bones. :)

Cheers,
Jack

[Donovan Kirkpatrick]

Kenny. I have a DHE, 12 ga. 2bbl set with one set of BHE bbls. It is 26", choked
Q1 and Q2 , SN is 12-0075. According to "TPS" some folk did not want BHE 2 bbl sets and the extra BHE bbls were put on DHE guns. I suppose someone has a BHE receiver out there marked 12-0075.

[Craig Haberthy]

Two things, What does the 'I' mean. Secondly, on the water table I see '20-03644' on the receiver I see '28-03644'. These are from the same gun. Is there a mismatch here?

[David Noble]

Craig, are the barrels 28ga, or are they 20ga?

[Craig Haberthy]

They are marked as 28 Gauge 2 3/4”

[John Allen]

To the best of my knowledge there were 100 12ga BHE and 100 20ga BHE guns built. All were 2 barrel sets. There were 12 28ga.BHE guns built and 7 410 BHEs. I have seen one 28/410 2 barrel set but there may be more out there. I sold several 12 and 20 ga BHE guns while I worked for Jaegers and a few from Game Fair. They are scarce and should bring a premium.

[Andrew Sacco]

Did they make ANY 16g Repro's??

[edgarspencer]

Two things, What does the 'I' mean. Secondly, on the water table I see '20-03644' on the receiver I see '28-03644'. These are from the same gun. Is there a mismatch here?

It seems obvious, it's a stamping error. No such thing as a double 0 frame 20, and no such thing as a lightened frame 20. It happens, though I admit it's the first time I've seen that on a Repro. I had a hammer gun, No. 77654, and the hammers were stamped 66754. I'm guessing it was stamped right after a (burp) lunch.

[Craig Haberthy]

very interesting indeed. And the ‘I’?

This presents a little mystique to the gun then.

[edgarspencer]

The I appears on my 28 also, and no one seems to know.

[John Allen]

Andy, They did make some DHE 16s. Some 16 gauge barrels were fitted to 20 gauge guns. I have never seen or heard of a 16 BHE, although they could exist.

[Dean Romig]

John, are you saying that they made some with a single set of 16 gauge barrels? I always thought 16 gauge barrels were added to a 0-frame 20 to make a two-barrel two-gauge set.






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[John Allen]

Not all were added to 20s. I don't know the actual numbers produced, but I have seen at least 4 16 gauge DHE guns that were not 2 barrel sets. Probably built out of remaining 20 gauge actions.

[Greg Baehman]

To the best of my knowledge there were 100 12ga BHE and 100 20ga BHE guns built. All were 2 barrel sets. There were 12 28ga.BHE guns built and 7 410 BHEs. I have seen one 28/410 2 barrel set but there may be more out there. I sold several 12 and 20 ga BHE guns while I worked for Jaegers and a few from Game Fair. They are scarce and should bring a premium.
John, can I/we ask where did those quantities of 12 28ga. BHE and 7 .410 BHEs built come from and were these also 2-bbl. sets?

[Andrew Sacco]

Thanks for the clarification on the 16's. That would be a sweet gun to me as I love 16's. I would imagine were it balanced correctly it would solve the "slightly too heavy" 20g repro problem I've read about (a lot).

[Harold Lee Pickens]

My good friend Bill, who recently suffered a severe stroke, and I fear may never go home, has a BHE repro 20, that he had a set of Kreighoff 16 ga barrels fitted to. This was what he hunted with, the set of 20 ga barrels are almost unused. It is a little heavy, as alot of repros are, but a great gun. His other Parker is an AHE 20 in wonderful condition. Bill gifted me the WW Greener sidelever 12 from 1875 that I have shown on the forum.

[John Allen]

The figures I quoted came from Parker Repro when they were introducing the BHE guns. The plan was to build 100 of each gauge. They completed the 12 and 20 gauge guns but only a handfull of 28s before the factory closed. All 100 in the 12 and 20 gauges were available as 2 barrel sets. I believe several of the sets were broken apart if the customers only wanted one barrel.

[Bill Murphy]

I think the real question is "Is there a Repro with a 16-XXX serial number?" Any other 16 is a 20 gauge receiver with a set of 16 gauge barrels.

[Andrew Sacco]

I think the real question is "Is there a Repro with a 16-XXX serial number?" Any other 16 is a 20 gauge receiver with a set of 16 gauge barrels.

So basically a 16g on an 0 frame????? I'd take that all day long.

[John Allen]

Probably not serialized as a 16 since all were built on O frames. No need to designate the frame as a 16. Especially since they originally planned to make all 2 barrel sets.

[Dean Romig]

This thread was started by Kenny Graft and I wonder if he ever got what he was looking for?






.

[Greg Baehman]

John, you've stated that there were twelve 28ga. BHE and seven .410 BHEs built, these quanties are different than previously reported -- no big deal regarding the 28 gauge. But, there's a bunch of ambiguity regarding the number of .410 BHEs built. If, as you say 7 were produced, how would you explain the below pictured Parker Reproduction?

[John Allen]

Don't really know actual numbers. Just what I was told when trying to buy them years ago for my store. I saw one advertised a couple of years ago as a BHE 28/410 set. The ad said it was the only one made. I think there were guns built or assembled after the shut down by Galazan or others who had parts. No sure way to tell unless there are records somewhere.

[Greg Baehman]

John, you may or may not have seen this letter before regarding that BHE 28/.410 set. Note the date of the letter is some six plus years after the factory closed.

[John Allen]

I had not seen the letter. that documents what I had been told.