Sterlingworth

[Jack Cronkhite]

Came across this cap. Owner has had it stored for 30 years and got it from his grandfather. He believes the cap is original. Was there ever such a cap installed at manufacture. My thoughts are no, but as Dean says, "never say never"... I had a quick look at the Fox site. Do they have a SN lookup like we do? I can't find it if they do. The gentleman says it is a 1921 gun. SN is 930xx as best I can make out on one pic.

[Bob Jurewicz]

Dates about right-maybe 1922. However, no to the grip cap!!
Bob Jurewicz

[Eric Eis]

Agree with Bob, nice grip cap but no not factory.

[Jack Cronkhite]

Thanks gents.
Bob: Where do you find year of manufacture from the SN? Is there anything on-line or is it from a reference book?
Cheers,
Jack

some more pics. sports 32" tubes

[Frank Cronin]

Jack, go to Connecticut Shotgun and they have firearm date of manufacture. When you get to the home page, click RESOURCES and a pull down menu appears. Choose Firearm dates and terminology and it brings you to several gun manufactures to pick from.

[Mark Ouellette]

Gentlemen,

Our friends at Doublegunshop.com provide this Dates of Production reference:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/dgsnos.htm

Mark

[Dave Suponski]

Jack, Is this Fox living in your house?.......:rolleyes:

[Jack Cronkhite]

No, but thanks to you guys, I look and then get tempted and then........ From what I can understand, the Sterlingworth was built by Fox in order to compete with the low budget gun world of the day. Did I get that right? If so, how come nobody thinks they are low budget any more? North of the border, guns tend to be a little cheaper but asking prices keep escalating. We just had an election up here (anybody notice?). The Conservatives obtained a long sought after majority. They will be scrapping our Long Gun Registry, so one less bureaucratic hurdle to gun ownership here. Unfortunately, many wonderful guns were voluntarily turned in for destruction :crying: over the past dozen years because nobody wanted the hassle that granpa's gun entailed in order to keep it legal. Many never did register and there has been one amnesty after another since the inception of the registry. There are likely as many or more unregistered firearms than registered. When that many people refuse to obey a law, examination is in order but it took more than a decade to deal with it and that could only happen with a majority Conservative government. Well, we got one now but I'm not holding my breath yet. I'm sure the registry will be scrapped in the fullness of political time. Well, that went a little off topic.

How much would a sane person pay for a Sterlingworth, complete with wooden pistol grip cap? Okay, even less than sane :)

Cheers,
Jack

[charlie cleveland]

jack a gun like that here would fetch between 1200 and 1500 hundred...thats my guess...nice looking gun and i like the 32 inch barrels.. charlie

[Mark Ouellette]

Jack,

The main difference between the Sterlingworths and the "Graded" A.H. Fox Guns was the name. Mr. Fox didn't want his name associated with a low cost gun. The Sterlingworth action is the same as the Graded guns. FYI, the 16's and 20's were built on the same 20 gauge-size frame. Those small bore Sterlys are ideal for your Partridge!

PS: A 32" Sterlingworth is somewhat rare.

Mark

[Rich Anderson]

Dad if you buy another new /old gun Mom is going take you to the woodshed. You won't get away with just a new mix Master....on the other hand those 32 in tubes would be great out on the prarie, you know to keep the gun moveing. the follow through will result in more birds in the bag then on the table as dinner so you might pass it off as a grocery getter.

I shot my first gun with 32 in tubes today at sporting clays. An Ithaca 4E vent rib trap gun. She can smoke a target when I do my part which wasn't very often but hey we just started dateing:whistle:

[Jack Cronkhite]

Been in that woodshed before :) I'm struggling now. 32" a bit rare. play budget can do it. Already in Canada, so the extra 400 tagged on to bring one from the south isn't a factor. What to do, what to do.......
Cheers,
Jack

[Mark Ouellette]

One can always sell but one cannot always buy...

[Frank Cronin]

Been in that woodshed before :) I'm struggling now. 32" a bit rare. play budget can do it. Already in Canada, so the extra 400 tagged on to bring one from the south isn't a factor. What to do, what to do.......
Cheers,
Jack

Jack, I think you are answering your own question here.... I believe you found a keeper. Post pics when you get the gun :D:cheers::bigbye:

[Dave Suponski]

Yup Jack....Sounds like you already bought the "Ol Girl" It's just a matter of giving the guy the dough. See I knew it was gonna live at your house....

[Rich Anderson]

Sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Buy it now deal with the woodshed later. Mom will forgive you, I just know it.

[Daryl Corona]

This is coming from a true Parkerphile but I could kick myself for ignoring Mr. Fox's guns until now. Just bought my 4th Fox and 1st graded gun at the Southern this year. A really nice, totally original 12ga. BE w/30" tubes.
Took her out this weekend down to Pintail Point and just shot it like I had owned it for years. I would buy that Sterly in a heartbeat with 32's. I own 2 Sterlys now[a 16 and a 12] and they are every bit the gun that a Parker is. Please forgive me for saying that. I will deny it under oath and please don't yank my life membership. Now that I'm out of the closet I feel better. I'm going up to the safe and fondle my DHE now just to let her know that I still find her very attractive with that sexy straight grip.
D

[Eric Eis]

Daryl just this "one" time we will let you slide.....:rotf:

[Dave Suponski]

Ya...And we keep count......:whistle:

[Jack Cronkhite]

Do the Fox guys know this? Do they also secretly harbour Parkers?

[Dave Suponski]

Most Certainly Jack!

[Rich Anderson]

Everyone harbours what they don't have from guns to cars.

[Pete Lester]

Everyone harbours what they don't have from guns to cars.

Thou shall not covet thy neighbors shotguns :rotf:

[Dave Suponski]

Somebody better explain that to JD....:rolleyes:

[Dean Romig]

Do the Fox guys know this? Do they also secretly harbour Parkers?

Oh yes, they sure do. We even have pictures of some of those guys shooting their Parkers :shock:

[George Lander]

Like Mr. Parker, Ansley didn't know how to build a cheap gun. Most all are pretty much the same minus the embellishments and quality of wood IMHO. ENJOY!

Best Regards, George

[Brent Francis]

Jack, Ive got a 16ga sterlingworth made in 1927, It like yours has a wooden grip cap. Ive looked for an original or repro sterlingworth grip and they seem to be hard to come by. I ended up deciding the wooden one looks better anyway. The original was just plain black dome.

[Steve Havener]

Ive looked for an original or repro sterlingworth grip and they seem to be hard to come by.

Brent for the later foxes they used an grip cap almost identical to the L. C Smith smooth cap. It will require a bit of fitting and polishing but will duplicate the original.

[Jack Cronkhite]

Jack, Ive got a 16ga sterlingworth made in 1927, It like yours has a wooden grip cap.

Maybe it was a brief flirtation with after market shotgun bling of the era.

[Bob Brown]

Jack, I had some photos of that Sterlingworth sent to me about a month back and considered buying it. In my opinion the stock itself was a replacement, though I'm not an expert and some here could set me straight. I didn't think the stock cheeks were defined enough and the checkering didn't appear to go close enough to the grip cap. The grip checkering panel was shaped a bit wrong too.
Since we're telling secrets I'm also a Fox Collectors Association member and have a few 32" Sterlingworths and several 30" pin guns. Excellent guns for the money they're going for, especially up here in Canada. They are great on clays, but for some reason I always seem to have a Parker in the goose blind.

[Jack Cronkhite]

Good to hear from you Bob. Hope all is well. I'll have to take up migratory birds again, as it will take a few seasons of roosters to shoot my late in life SXS accumulations. Will give SC a go as well, although I'm partial to eating what I shoot.

Cheers,
Jack

[Jack Cronkhite]

Okay, in the fullness of time and after enduring a postal strike this Fox did arrive at my den today. It will need some work to improve the cosmetics. And, surprise, surprise - it is an ejector gun. A brief look over at the Fox site found one person estimates 1 to 2% of Sterlingworths are ejectors. Any thoughts here on that point?
I will do a full tear down/reassembly because it is time. Anyway, another project and I already have too many projects on the go (only a couple are firearms)
Cheers,
Jack

[Frank Cronin]

Great find Jack! 32" barrels and an added bonus it came with ejectors.

Like Dave said in an earlier post, we knew it was going to live in your house! :cheers:

Post pics after you get 'er all cleaned up.

[Francis Morin]

Okay, in the fullness of time and after enduring a postal strike this Fox did arrive at my den today. It will need some work to improve the cosmetics. And, surprise, surprise - it is an ejector gun. A brief look over at the Fox site found one person estimates 1 to 2% of Sterlingworths are ejectors. Any thoughts here on that point?
I will do a full tear down/reassembly because it is time. Anyway, another project and I already have too many projects on the go (only a couple are firearms)
Cheers,
Jack Wonder if it has 3" chambers- The Utica Sterlingworth 20 I own has 26" chromox barrels, DT and Ejectors- but 32" barrels- wow indeed. Fotos soon???:bigbye:

[Jack Cronkhite]

2 1/2" chambers F+ F+ chokes

Sear axle set screws getting a penetrating oil soak so I can get the sears out and finally have the butt stock removed.

Got time to mow the grass now.

Cheers,
Jack

[Jack Cronkhite]

Mowing grass is over-rated. Trimmed a few tree branches and played with the sear axle set screw. It was of course a buggered screw head and took some judicious work and had to grind a couple of my good tips but got it out without breaking half the head off. In its history, it had a sear replaced based on one looks more like a new sear and the other looks its 90 years. So, the stock is off.

Bob, you wondered about it being a replacement. I don't see any serial number like on the Parkers and don't know if there is any means to tell beyond that. If it is replacement wood, it was a long time ago. Typical oil blackened head. The checkering looks like well worn checkering does, so my guess, unless there is a means to prove otherwise, is that the stock is original to the gun.

For the stock guys who read this - is there a "home" recipe to de-oil the wood? Some method that isn't yet known to the State of California to kill me and all my progeny for generations to come.

Cheers,
Jack

[Brent Francis]

32 inch barrels and ejectors you should log into the fox forum and make them crazy. Ive got a 16 sterly with 28 inch barrel and ejectors that I really like. The only problem Ive had is the forend wood is very thin on the back with the ejector guns and it has a tendancy to crack. Also that woodscrew that goes to the back doesnt have much wood to grab and they have a tendancy to pull out.
Thats on the philidelpia models the savage has a better forend.

[Francis Morin]

32 inch barrels and ejectors you should log into the fox forum and make them crazy. Ive got a 16 sterly with 28 inch barrel and ejectors that I really like. The only problem Ive had is the forend wood is very thin on the back with the ejector guns and it has a tendancy to crack. Also that woodscrew that goes to the back doesnt have much wood to grab and they have a tendancy to pull out.
Thats on the philidelpia models the savage has a better forend. A good friend has a AE 16 Fox with 28" Krupp barrels, DT, Ejectors, splinter forearm and has had that same problem- we reinforced the thin area inside with a coat of Acra-Glas- and wrapped masking tape around the wood screw threads for a tighter fit- problem solved. My 20 has a slightly "beefier" forearm and buttstock than my friend's Phila mfg. 16- Many of the pre-1913 LC Smith ejector guns with splinter forearm also had possible cracks due to the thin cross-section at the rear of the forearm wood- my 3E (made in 1911) started to develop a hairline crack- Acra-Glas and taping the screw slightly solved that problem- the extractor guns- possible not so much strain on the shoe of the forearm iron- just my guess.. My 20 Fox has the serial number under the trigger guard, stamped in the inletted groove just as on the Parkers- perhaps a later concept for Fox after they were bought out by Savage-Stevens in 1929???:bigbye:

[Rick Losey]

[QUOTE=Francis Morin;45962]
My 20 Fox has the serial number under the trigger guard, stamped in the inletted groove just as on the Parkers- perhaps a later concept for Fox after they were bought out by Savage-Stevens in 1929???QUOTE]

the philly foxes I have stocked had serial numbers on the original wood.

[Francis Morin]

Check it out--:cool:

[Jack Cronkhite]

This image snagged off the Fox forum, not my gun. That said, mine also has the corrugated metal strip. Discussion has it that they were used for some Philadelphia guns. In the blackened stock head area on mine I can see one stamped number in the wood and it is one of the numbers in my SN so.... more info to suggest the stock is original. Maybe when the blackened oil is removed, I will be able to see more numbers.
Cheers,
Jack

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b450/silvers897/IMG_8363.jpg

[Brent Francis]

thanks for the post. I had taken my sterlingworth apart and saw that corregated staple or what ever it is and though it was someones repair for a split stock head

[Jack Cronkhite]

Apparently it was at the discretion of the stockmaker, depending on how the specific piece of quarter sawn walnut looked after all the wood removal was done. It is supposed to strengthen that area.

[Frank Srebro]

Mr. Tarnation... when "snagging" photos off the Fox forum it would be nice if you at least gave credit to the guy who took the photo, and spent time uploading and posting it, along with his take on why it was added to some but not all stocks.

Why not just add a hyperlink so that the original Fox site posting remained intact? Frank

[Jack Cronkhite]

Mr. Tarnation... when "snagging" photos off the Fox forum it would be nice if you at least gave credit to the guy who took the photo, and spent time uploading and posting it, along with his take on why it was added to some but not all stocks.

Why not just add a hyperlink so that the original Fox site posting remained intact? Frank

Agreed. Poor form. Here's a LINK (http://foxcollectors.com/My%20Forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3338)
Jack

[Jack Cronkhite]

Progress thus far:

Trigger plate removed, disassembled, gunk and rust completely eliminated, cold blued, lightly oiled and hand rubbed, re-assembled and ready to go when the rest is done.

Barrels given a good thorough clean of bores which now glisten and chime nicely. Found a number of small dents several inches from the muzzles. A little rough handling over the years. Easily raised with proper tool but I don't have one and not quite ready to lay out 400+$$. Probably just take it to the smith to have done. Removed all screws,springs, hooks,ejectors and they are soaking while I do yard work, car work, life work but they will all clean up nicely. Discovered one ejector is slightly warped. It will not easily slide into place. The other is perfect. Both are numbered to the gun. I think this arose from lack of cleaning over the years and then forcing the action closed while there was a build up of grunge, hardened oil and rust mix. Never have played with ejectors but it needs to be straightened to just drop into place, not be forced. Forcing it closed has also caused it to shine up the under rib through wearing against that surface, suggesting to me that this went on for quite a while during hunts.

I am open to suggestions on straightening the ejector shank.

I have thought of a gentle squeeze in the vise between copper jaws. If that doesn't work, I have thought about heating it a bit and redoing the gentle squeeze.

Has anyone straightened an ejector shank? It is not grossly warped, just enough that it will not seat itself without more finger pressure than I think it should need. When I push it home and watch the other end, the warped shank moves off center towards the opposite barrel, forcing the other shank to move off center closer to its barrel. The good ejector drops into place and moves straight along the under rib, as it should. Closing the action does seat both ejectors but that continues a problem that should be rectified.

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Jack

[Francis Morin]

[quote=Jack Cronkhite;46309]Progress thus far:

Trigger plate removed, disassembled, gunk and rust completely eliminated, cold blued, lightly oiled and hand rubbed, re-assembled and ready to go when the rest is done. If the pin and the lugger (extractor blade ) are OK, and they are silver soldered into position on the lugger- I would have a machinist make a new shank with the key-way, right to scale from D-2, and refit it to the guide pin and lugger- if you put heat into the ejector assembly, heat always travels to the thinnest mass- overheating might cause the silver solder to break lose anyway=-- it some ways, it is way easier to straighten dents in a pipe (shotgun barrel_) than to bend back a out of alignment solid rod, no matter the metallurgy:eek::eek:

[Jim Akins]

Jack, be careful straightening the ejector blade. If you break it they are almost impossible to find. The blade and shaft are machined as one piece. I think that I would determine where the misalignment occurs, probably going to be the blade. If so I would assemble both to the gun and use careful force to try correction (light hammer). applying heat carefully might help.

[Jack Cronkhite]

Thanks Jim: I have determined it is the shaft. The blades seat correctly. Laying the problem ejector on a true flat surface and shining oblique light from the back, I can see the arc of the warpage. The other ejector shaft shows no arc. I'm of a mind to warm it slightly and squeeze in the vise, using copper jaw covers. Since it is not that much off being straight, I'm hoping that will resolve the issue. I don't think that will over-stress the metal but anyone with experience has a few more days to chime in before I go through gaining experience, which sometimes means learning what not to do ever again. :)
Cheers,
Jack

[Francis Morin]

Thanks Jim: I have determined it is the shaft. The blades seat correctly. Laying the problem ejector on a true flat surface and shining oblique light from the back, I can see the arc of the warpage. The other ejector shaft shows no arc. I'm of a mind to warm it slightly and squeeze in the vise, using copper jaw covers. Since it is not that much off being straight, I'm hoping that will resolve the issue. I don't think that will over-stress the metal but anyone with experience has a few more days to chime in before I go through gaining experience, which sometimes means learning what not to do ever again. :)
Cheers,
Jack- Ooops- I didn't realize the shaft, blade and the guide pin were of a piece (AISI 1018?)- yup, moderate heat and copper vise jaws- just don't use the old machine shop Rule of Thumb- "Never force anything, just go to the tool crib and get a larger hammer"-- That's in jest of course- let us know how it works out please, Jack:bigbye::bigbye: