3" 12 Gauge Black Powder Load?

[Paul Bridges]

Has anyone worked up a black powder load for 3 inch 12 gauge? I bought an Ithaca 2 grade Lewis heavy duck damascus gun recently, and it has 3" factory chambers and I would like to try some old time long range water fowl loads. The chamber walls are so thick I thought it was a 10 gauge when I first saw it! I have lots of load info for shorter hulls, but nothing for 3" ones.

[charlie cleveland]

i cant help you paul with 3 inch loads in black powder but its a interesting load...tell us more about the heavy duck gun...its weight barrel lenth chokes and so on...maybe some body will hop in here and tell us the 3 inch black powder load.... charlie

[Marc Retallack]

Paul

Perhaps Craig Smith at Circle Fly Wads http://www.circlefly.com/index.html can help you with loads for your Ithaca.

Cheers
Marc

[Robert Rambler]

A heavy 12ga load here is listed as 3 1/2 drams black powder and 1 1/4 oz shot. A 3in shell may have room for extra wadding, for less shot deformation and a tighter pattern?
http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html

[Paul Bridges]

I would love to give you more details on the gun, but I dropped it off at the gunsmith to have an ivory bead replaced, so I don't have access to it right now. When I get it back, I'll check on the details. It has one ding in the barrels, otherwise the bores are perfect. The reciever is mostly silvered out with faint case on it. It locks up tight on face, no rattles or shakes with forend removed, but the toplever is about center, maybe slightly left. Interestingly, the barrels are unmarked, except I believe the weight is stamped under them. They are fairly fancy damascus.

[Paul Bridges]

Actually that makes sense to me. The longer column would leak less and make a tighter seal. I see that Rocky Mountain offers 3" brass shells. These may be just the ticket for this Ithaca. It is obvious when looking at the gun that the chambers were made that way (virtually no taper until way past the chambers). It is a heavy gun on a larger frame. It makes my #2 frame Parkers look dainty!

I just found data from Goex, they say 4 drams and 1 1/2 ounces for 3 inch 12 gauge. I think the gun would handle it with no problem, however I am not sure I could take it! I think I'll try the 3 1/2 dram x 1 1/4 ounce load.

[Frank Cronin]

Paul, are you sure 4 drams? I checked Goex's site for the 3" 12ga. load with 1 1/2oz of shot. 1 dram equals 27.3 grains of black powder. 102 grains / 27.3 = 3.73 drams. A pretty stout load! Your idea to start with 3 1/2 drams is a good start

[Paul Bridges]

Paul, are you sure 4 drams? I checked Goex's site for the 3" 12ga. load with 1 1/2oz of shot. 1 dram equals 27.3 grains of black powder. 102 grains / 27.3 = 3.73 drams. A pretty stout load! Your idea to start with 3 1/2 drams is a good start



Frank, you are correct, my "quick" math was bad. 3 3/4 drams or so with 1 1/2 ounces: still more than I want to try!

[Paul Harm]

I shoot 3 1/3 dram loads [ 95grs ] in my 2 3/4" 12ga Parker. Long time ago - late 70's - I made a 8ga muzzleloader and shot 400grs of 1F and 4 oz of shot. Anyways, you can just about shoot what ever you like when useing blackpowder. I don't think you could load to a too high of pressure when useing a shell - only so much will go in it. The "old rule of thumb" was equal amounts of powder to shot by volume. That was a starting point, then you could fine tune for pattern. Paul

[Paul Harm]

I just checked - BPI sells 3" hulls. They would be great for what you want. Paul

[Harry Collins]

I would not use the Rocky Mountain Brass. It is turned (not extruded) and would use a 12 gauge wad instead of an 11 gauge wad. Many of the older guns had larger bores, not the now standard .729. I have one that has .751 bores. The 2 1/2" extruded brass by Magtech (CBC) will hold, as I remember a stiff load of BP and shot. You just need to cut back on the wadding. Ask Craig Smith owner of Circle Fly Wads. He often uses less wads and he has done extensive BP shooting both muzzel and breech loader.

Harry

[Paul Bridges]

Paul, I got a message from Craig at Circle Fly. Based on what he said, I am thinking that the Goex load of 3 3/4 or so drams is about all you could fit. I will start lighter and work my way up to see what works.

[Paul Bridges]

I would not use the Rocky Mountain Brass. It is turned (not extruded) and would use a 12 gauge wad instead of an 11 gauge wad. Many of the older guns had larger bores, not the now standard .729. I have one that has .751 bores. The 2 1/2" extruded brass by Magtech (CBC) will hold, as I remember a stiff load of BP and shot. You just need to cut back on the wadding. Ask Craig Smith owner of Circle Fly Wads. He often uses less wads and he has done extensive BP shooting both muzzel and breech loader.

Harry

Harry,

What is the problem with using turned, rather than extruded brass? When I get the gun back from the gunsmith (you know how long that can take) I'll check the bore diameter. I have 3 Parker GHs (1896,1903 and 1907) all bores are .729, but I have an 1889 Remington that is .724, so I can see what you mean about the bores.

Paul B.

[Mark Ouellette]

Paul,

A difference of .005" should not matter much to the wad sealing or pressure developed. A difference of a .022" larger bore as Harry mentioned would likely have a negative affect on a fiber wad sealing.

The above stated, I use Gauge Mate adapters to shoot 12 gauge in 10 gauge guns. the plastic wads which I use, normally Claybuster brand, seem to seal good enough. I am using smokeless powder which because of a longer buring time may allow the under-sized wad time to seal in the larger bore. One of you black powder guys please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Mark

For what its worth...
Mark

[Harry Collins]

Paul,

Like Mark, I too shoot 12 gauge plastic shells and wads through my 10 gauge guns with great success. When I shoot BP in the 12 and 20 gauges I use extruded brass and a fiber wad one gauge larger. I did have some 10 gauge Ballard Brass (now produced by Rocky Mountain) and shot 10 gauge .790 wads through .802 bores. I just thought that if I had extruded 10 gauge brass that used 9 gauge .815 wads I would have gotten a better seal. The Rocky Mountain brass may work wonderfully for you, but you can purchase 25 Magtech 12 gauge shells for $22.49 where 25 Rocky Mountain 2 7/8" 12 guage brass hulls will cost $170.00.

Harry