Upland hunting with hammer guns

[scott porter]

I have just become the owner of D grade 10 ga. hammer gun #96343 which is featured in the Parker Story on about 10 pages. I took it pheasant hunting at Primland this past weekend expecting to be shooting over pointed birds that would hold as usual. We had a young lady with us on her first hunt and I planned on backing her up. To my surprise the roosters were running and getting up about 20-30 yards from the dogs and required quicker cocking and bringing the gun to shoulder than I could manage. I dont feel comfortable walking with a cocked gun. Is it advisable to walk with the gun cocked but the breech open. The single motion of closing the breech while raising the gun to shoulder would be better, but I have no experience. Do any of you experienced hammer gun guys have some advice? BTW the gun is choked XF,XXF and the birds fell like stones at some substantial distance.

[George Lander]

Scott: IMO it is not advisable to carry a cocked hammer gun with the breech open . If the sears are worn at all the act of closing the gun could cause it to fire. I would advise cocking either one or both hammers when bringing the gun to battery.

Best Regards, George

[David Holes]

Hunting with a hammer gun is a real pleasure, I have not been able to convince myself to hunt with other people while carrying a hammer gun. So when the dogs and I are alone I enjoy those old hammers.

[william faulk]

I was taught by my Father and Uncles to hunt with hammer guns exactly as described,hammers back,breech open.When gun was mounted,with weak hand on forearm,breech snapped shut,all was one fluid motion.Never saw a mechanical misfire but several prefires with gun discharge prior to touching the shoulder.I do agree,(better safe than sorry)especially when hunters todayjust do not have years of experience with the hammer guns.
Bill :nono:

[Dean Romig]

You should hunt with hammerguns with whatever method both you and your shooting companions feel most safe.
Me... I hunt with hammers back and breech open until I enter the cover. Then and only then it is breech closed with muzzles pointed skyward. Whenever I am not in the act of deliberate hunting the breech is again opened.


.

[Bill Murphy]

I prefer cocked and open when hunting with someone else. It is the only position that seems to make others comfortable. When shooting in a preserve situation with a guide and dogs that are not yours, all guns should be open or empty until a dog is on point. Distort your shells to keep them from falling out of the gun.

[scott porter]

Thanks for all the advice and the great pictures. I have two other hammer guns - one is a Clark and Snieder (Baltimore) and the other is a beautiful Boss, once belonging to the Duke of Portland. I have hunted with all three and really enjoy it. I feel certaint the original owners of these guns found a way to hunt game that "popped up" unexpectedly. Maybe their reflexes and coordination was just enough better to get both barrells cocked while in motion. For now I believe I will hunt breech open and left barrell cocked. At least that way I won't risk a premature discharge of both barrells - that would really get my attention with the 10 ga. Thanks again and any further advice is appreciated. What a great forum.

[Dave Suponski]

Bill had a great suggestion and it works very well. Bite the brass base a little and stuff the shell in. This way if you are hunting with an open gun the shell will not fall out.

[Robin Lewis]

Bite the base of an explosive device :shock: Who is your dentist/neurologist?:corn:

[George Lander]

Scott: The accidental discharge of only one ten gauge barrel is quite enough IMHO

Best Regards, George

[Dave Suponski]

Okay fine...Just squeeze the shell until its a little out of round....Feel better?....:rolleyes:

[Mike Shepherd]

I thought Bill advised biting the crimp end of the shotshell. That is what I do anyway. It then wedges in the chamber and won't fall out.

Best,

Mike

[Bill Murphy]

Scott, the preferred method to cock a hammer gun at the rise is to cock the left barrel as you start the mount and the right barrel as the gun comes to the shoulder. You are performing the most difficult maneuver first, and the easier one as you are ready to pull the trigger.

[scott porter]

Thanks Bill. I guess I am just too slow and need to practice.

[Harry Collins]

I carry my gun closed with hammers down. If hunting over a dog and it comes on point I will cock both hammers while the barrels point skyward. If in the comapny of others I will carry the gun open and hammers down. When dove hunting I will cock the gun on the way to my shoulder with muzzels up. Same thing in the duck blind.

When I lived in Italy in the early 70's I shot two flats of shells a week at skeet. I shot a Barnardelli Brescia 20 gauge hammer gun. I shot International with gun down and hammers uncocked. On doubles I would cock the right hammer for the first bird then take the gun off the shoulder and cock the left barrel for the second bird. I shot in the mid 90's as I had an awful time of it at station 8.

Harry

[Fred Preston]

A few years ago at a NSTRA trial, I was using my 1884 lifter and attracted some attention, especially from an eastern European gentleman who told me of a European hammer gun that was equipped with a safety. Anyone seen one of those? At a trial, of course, carrying the gun with the hammers down (or even unloaded) is no problem as you don't shoot till the dog has established his find and point and you flush the bird.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Scott, where are you located, I am only 30 min from Primland. Gary

[Mike Shepherd]

A few years ago at a NSTRA trial, I was using my 1884 lifter and attracted some attention, especially from an eastern European gentleman who told me of a European hammer gun that was equipped with a safety.

Fred I field trial in NSTRA too. I use an old beater VH 12. Get lots of comments and questions - mostly "What is that?"

My shooting student and double gun mentor Joe Wood has a near pristine London flintlock sixteen double with a grip safety. And Henry Crank in England has a percussion gun with a grip safety on his website - http://www.henrykrank.com/dps103.html

I know that is not what you are looking for but I think it is interesting that they were doing safeties way back then.


Best,

Mike

[calvin humburg]

I would rather hunt with someone with cocked hammers gun closed (because he is beeing extra careful) than someone with his off safty because he forgot to put it back on safe. I suspect that happens more than one knows. Caring the gun a certian way I can cock both hammers in one motion on the way up.

[charlie cleveland]

never really thought about how to carry a hammer gun when in the woods till this post...i carry my hammer gun with hammers down...but ive always hunted alone and then the quary was squirls or crows....i dont know what i would do hunting quail over dogs with other hunters...this would be new for me with hammer gun... charlie

[Richard Flanders]

If I remember correctly Murphy bites the crimped end of the shell to deform it a bit and preventing it from falling out. It doesn't take much to keep them in the chamber. I don't think it's a good idea to deform the brass base. Trigg hunts with his hammerless guns open until the dog goes on point and I follow him around and pick up shells, some from a previous days hunt he had been on. I don't do that; too much 'stuff' falls inside the action-sticks etc-some of which necessitate taking the floorplate off to remove. I would certainly never carry a hammer gun closed and cocked when hunting with others and/or a dog; I don't even do it hunting alone with no dog, but have it loaded, cocked and open until something flushes and try to keep rubbish from getting into the action. It's easy in a preserve situation to carry them open and loaded or even unloaded until the dog goes on point. At our open field preserve up here there are relatively few surprises unless a bird wakes up and runs so it works well to carry a hammer gun loaded, cocked and open. I don't bite my shells ala Murphy when hunting/dog training there. I have also dismantled every Parker I have for cleaning/inspection/repair so I know where the sears are with respect to wear to address the issue George brought up of closing causing a discharge. I've bought hammer guns that came with sears worn/mangled enough to have that be a definite issue. I dismantle every Parker before I ever shoot it, especially around anyone else. Not much of anything more embarrassing or dangerous than an accidental discharge of a shotgun when shooting around others; just once and you will be suspect from then on. Your shooting buddies are likely to buy you a beenie cap with a siren and a rotating red beacon on it....

oops. Didn't read page 2 before writing this. I've not tried the cocking of the hammers when a bird flushes. Sounds like Harry has a lot of experience at that. I did see a nice hammer gun at a shot once that had the hammer ears come over towards the middle of the breech enough that you could bridge them with one thumb. It was very easy to put your right thumb across both and cock it. I liked that a lot. It was a 12ga too, but not a large framed gun.

[Harry Collins]

Richard,

I think it is Austin that cockes both hammer as the gun comes up. He is a great shot and a delight to shoot with. Great observation. I have several Parkers you could do that with, but also have one with off set hammers (you can open the gun with it cocked) that it might be a little dangerious doing. I still like a closed gun hammers down. With practice you will find on the skeet range you have plenty of time to shoot doubles with hammers down and cocking for each bird.

Harry

[Dean Romig]

With practice you will find on the skeet range you have plenty of time to shoot doubles with hammers down and cocking for each bird. Harry

But not on ruffed grouse and woodcock in heavy cover without a dog.

[Richard Flanders]

On some skeet shots I can barely even see both birds much less cock hammers for each clay. I like to cock the hammers with the gun open then close it when ready to call for the birds/clays. I've not shot a light and/or small framed hammer gun though. Mine are both pretty stout guns. A small frame hammer gun is one of my dream guns. I would like for every hammer gun to be such that it could be opened with the hammers cocked. It's much safer I think.

[Dean Romig]

A small frame hammer gun is one of my dream guns. I would like for every hammer gun to be such that it could be opened with the hammers cocked. It's much safer I think.

Mine is an absolute delight to hunt with and carry and with the fishtail lever it opens easily with the hammers cocked.


As in WHF's "New England Grouse Shooting"'s Little Gun... "Gee-rifus Ev, she don't weigh nothin'."
.

[Richard Flanders]

Dean: please locate the nearest Star Trek replicator and clone your gun for me... You can beam it to my home address when it's ready....

[Bill Murphy]

Austin may in fact cock both of his hammers at the same time on the rise. However, chances are he uses the less strenuous, more reliable, and safer method of cocking the left, then the right, just finishing the cocking of the right barrel as the trigger is pulled. It doesn't matter which trigger you decide to pull first, but as you are finishing the cocking of the right barrel, your hand is in the shooting position.

[Paul Ehlers]

OK Dean,

Now you've got me drooling! What gauge is your little hammer gun? Please tell me more about it.

Paul

[Dean Romig]

Paul, it's a sixteen on the 0-frame with lightening cuts. It has 28" barrels choked open and mod and it weighs 6 lbs., 7 oz. LOP is 14 1/4" with DAC of 2 1/4" and DAH of 3". It balances about 1/4" foreward of the hinge pin and is very lively but not at all whippy.
Chuck Bishop shot it at one of the stations at Addieville on Saturday and if memory serves, he cleaned the station... or maybe dropped one.
Thanks for the compliment. Dean

[Bill Murphy]

Chuck Bishop missed one? Do you have a cell phone video?

[Jerry Andrews]

I'm from West Virginia, and well, you've heard all the stories and told all the jokes but...we don't bite live shells!!!! We've bitten other live things but not shells. Jerry
PS. Bill, just funnin' with ya

[will evans]

But not on ruffed grouse and woodcock in heavy cover without a dog.

I'd love to hear how those guys who hunt from their 4 wheelers in the UP and Minnesota handle it - hammers down/cocked, open/closed?

[Rich Anderson]

I hunt in the U.P. but don't have a 4 wheeler but when I take the hammer gun I don't cock it untill I walk in on a point and I'm usually hunting alone.

[will evans]

Wasn't trying to offend everyone in the UP or Minnesota, but I'm sure you're aware of those types I was poking at. Frankly, I'd be surprised to learn anyone on this forums hunts with those tactics.

[Andy Kelley]

Hi all have been hunting the last five years with hammer guns(British and Belgian) in Maine, Canada but mostly in the western Adirondaks. I cock both hammers when I walk in on point. My dog is very solid and I have never had a problem. I do however shoot a lot of skeet with my hammer guns so the cocking becomes muscle memory.

[Charlie]

I have just become the owner of D grade 10 ga. hammer gun #96343 which is featured in the Parker Story on about 10 pages. I took it pheasant hunting at Primland this past weekend expecting to be shooting over pointed birds that would hold as usual. We had a young lady with us on her first hunt and I planned on backing her up. To my surprise the roosters were running and getting up about 20-30 yards from the dogs and required quicker cocking and bringing the gun to shoulder than I could manage. I dont feel comfortable walking with a cocked gun. Is it advisable to walk with the gun cocked but the breech open. The single motion of closing the breech while raising the gun to shoulder would be better, but I have no experience. Do any of you experienced hammer gun guys have some advice? BTW the gun is choked XF,XXF and the birds fell like stones at some substantial distance.

Scott: I owned that gun for many years but never shot it. I bought it from a guy who said it came from Owensboro, KY. I guess you know the barrels are set 2. Would be neat to find set 1. The order for it is in TPS, in the chapter on paperwork. as I recall. I've only used a hammer double -- Parker 16 ga. -- pass shooting doves from a stand. Plenty of time to cock the hammers when you see one coming. That D grade is neat; wish I hadn't sold it. Best wishes, Charlie Price

[todd allen]

Barrels open with hammers cocked. Why else would they have invented the fish-tail top lever?

[Paul Plager]

I've only hunted upland with a hammer gun once. It was last year, in a preserve here in south Texas. I never thought about what I was doing with the gun until I read this post. It must have been automatic for me to cary the gun open with hammers down and cock it after the dogs went on point. The guide always checked with the hunters before sending in the flushing dog.after I was set and the gun pointed up and cocked I was ready and the dog flushed the pheasant. It seemed to work well as I dropped 7 the first time out.

[Rich Anderson]

I tried it with the hammers cocked and the gun open but found it uncomfortable to carry that way and I lost a couple of shells to boot. I just cocked the gun when the dog went on point.

[John Farrell]

This question had bothered me for many years. As many hammer guns as I looked at, the mystery of how to get them into the game when the bird flushed remained a mystery. I got the answer at the Mpls Pheasant Fest from one of the wizards of hammer guns at the PGCA booth. This conversation supplies even more answers. Now I may finally get a hammer gun for my collection and use.

[Rich Anderson]

So just what did the Wizzard of hammer guns tell you?

[Jack Cronkhite]

I don't have a lot of hammer gun experience. The first time out, I carried loaded, closed, hammers down. I was hunting alone. You might guess what happened on the very first flush - a lot of fumbling trying to cock one hammer. The spring was in very good condition, so I watched the rooster fly away, as I didn't even get the gun cocked. I feel pretty nervous, even alone, having the gun closed with hammers cocked, so the only time I do that is when I am expecting a flush. I'll be practicing hammer cocking during the shoulder mount. I did drop one nice rooster on a surprise flush using that method. Not sure who was more surprised with the outcome. Anyway, the hammer gun experience is a whole new dimension for upland shooting. I'm awaiting arrival of a nice 10ga hammer gun that will be put through its paces in October. Seems a bit of overkill for pheasants but this gun needs to be shot again !

[charlie cleveland]

im like you jack i keep the gun closed hammers down...if im expecting something to be shot at such as squirl or crow i keep my thumb on the hammer still down till i see the critter... jack no such thing as over kill.... charlie

[E Robert Fabian]

Austin Hogan showed me at a New Years Day shoot how to reach over the right hammer to the left and cock both in one motion...he demonstrated on a pair with low gun hammers down....by the way I still haven't mastered it.

[Ben Rawls]

I was hunting last season with an old GE Lewis hammer gun and ran into this very problem. I was hunting with 2 friends and I really felt stange about the cocked gun. I was paranoid about it unitl I finally got my 20ga repro. I was carrying loaded and hammer down but still ran into the problem of decocking safely. For me the answer is only when alone or with one other person I'm familiar with.

[Dean Romig]

This evening we will have a reading from "Tranquility" by Col. H. P. Sheldon where he recounts an episode when he is grouse or woodcock shooting without a dog and his companion the portly "Judge" is shooting a hammer gun. I will quote verbatim when I have the book in hand.

[Dean Romig]

And I quote from page 103 of "Tranquility" (1940) in the story Ghost Birds about shooting woodcock in the snow.

""There ain't a woodcock in there," declared the Captain positively. "Look at it! But it's a pretty sight, just the same, and the fire'll feel mighty comfortable when we get back to it after sloshing around in this mess for an hour or two."

The judge had lost some of his earlier assurance, even though he wouldn't admit it. After all, it was a long way back to that day in 1901 with Old Bill Ward, and it might just be that it hadn't snowed quite so hard on that occasion as he thought it had. But he dropped a couple of 9's into his old double, raised the hammers and stepped in among the stems. "Come on," he ordered.

The other did as he was bade. There was a ghostly appearance about the environment that the lean sportsman never forgot afterwards. A thin vapor rose from the earth and mingled with the flakes. In it the dark figure of the Judge, thirty paces distant, became vague, distorted and grotesque. He might have been one of Rip Van Winkle's strange Little Men of the Kaatskills finding his way back to the glen above the Hudson through the murk that enshrouded the hills.

[Jack Kuzepski]

Dean,
That's some good reading. I have Tranquility and one other one (either Regained or Revisited). I've got to get the third one. When I read them, it's like stepping into another world where life is simpler.
This thread is interesting to me because I've yet to use my hammer guns hunting.


Jack Kuzepski

[James R. Black]

I have hunted with hammer guns for many years and I never cock the hammer until I am ready to shoot.Anyone who hunts with the hammers cocked or the barrels open is just a accident waiting to happen.Cock the right barrel as you shoulder your weapon.This is usually the modified or open barrel and upon discharging that barrel cock the left for your next shot.I have seen several people who received shotgun wounds at close range and they don't stand much of a chance for recovery.The one thing that you must watch with a hammer gun is the cover that you are walking through.I have accidently caught the hammers on brush and cocked the weapon.

[ed good]

track of the wolf is having sale on their repro parker brass shells and reloading supplies...

[will evans]

I have hunted with hammer guns for many years and I never cock the hammer until I am ready to shoot.Anyone who hunts with the hammers cocked or the barrels open is just a accident waiting to happen.Cock the right barrel as you shoulder your weapon.This is usually the modified or open barrel and upon discharging that barrel cock the left for your next shot.I have seen several people who received shotgun wounds at close range and they don't stand much of a chance for recovery.The one thing that you must watch with a hammer gun is the cover that you are walking through.I have accidently caught the hammers on brush and cocked the weapon.

Mr. Black,

In the interests of being safe, I would like to further explore your point above. I have recently purchased my first two hammer guns, and have been reading this thread with interest. Can you explain further how a gun with open barrels is dangerous? What is the difference between closing the barrels on the way up and cocking the hammers on the way up? Furthering that, if you have personally seen brush result in accidentally cocked hammers, then I fail to see how the open barrel/hammers cocked technique is more dangerous than closed with hammers down.

So the danger with walking around with the barrels closed and hammers back is obvious. Barrels closed and hammers down could result in a discharge by virtue of brush cocking the hammers, or even partially lifting them for a brief second before dropping them again on the primer. How does a gun with an open breech discharge?

[Dean Romig]

Just from my own experience, and of course only with my own hammerguns - all of which are Parkers - it is enough of a chore to cock the hammers on my guns with my thumbs... I can't even imagine "brush" accidentally cocking a hammer on my gun. Why, I would have to literally crash into or stumble and fall against a small tree to provide enough force to cock one of these hammers. Just sayin'...

Yup, open breech with cocked hammers is the way I do it. I'll close the gun and carry it with muzzles up when I expect a bird to flush and open it again when the possibility of an imminent flush is past.

[Richard Flanders]

I have had a Winchester 1886 cock on me while crawling through the brush to get close to a moose... twice. Very unnerving. Can't see that happening with a hammer shotgun though. I agree with Dean on that one. I saw a hammer gun designed to cock just as Austin showed someone here. The hammer ears each had a jog that brought them very close together over the center of the gun so it was easy to get your right thumb across both. I thought that was brilliant. That was one nice little hammer gun. Too bad the bbls were only about .010" thick in places.

[Jack Kuzepski]

When Dean posted the quote from the Tranquility series it inspired me to get out my books and reread them again. In Tranqulility is a story called "Odd or Even", where a southern acquaintence John Armistead Bristol sends the Captain a letter announcing his impending arrival to sample hunting Vermont style that was mentioned when they were hunting down south. Johnny is driving up to invade the north and bringing his 2 hammer Parkers to hunt with. Because this is Johnny's first trip north, the Captain is giving him instructions on how best to hunt birds he never hunted before. These words of wisdom seem to be as true today as when they were written. This quote comes from Tranquility pp154:

"Woodcock lie pretty well, but the grouse mostly are too smart to let a dog come up on 'em, unless it happens to be a wet, misty sort of day. When it's like this-bright and clear- and when the leaves are falling, these birds will lie more often for a man than they will for his dog. When you shoot, mark your bird down and don't lose anytime in getting to him."
He continues his instruction.
"You'll find an old cow path following along the brook. Keep right along that and cock both barrels and peel your eyes. The Judge will be 50 yards on the other side and I'll be an equal distance on this side. Whistle if you lose us, so we'll know where everyone is and no one'll get shot."
They left him and Johnny, pulling both hammers to the oily snick of full cock, advanced down a black dirt path where the yellow leaves of hazel lay. The pungent smell of it's golden blossom was sharp in his nostrils. It was bird country........


Jack kuzepski

[Dean Romig]

Yes indeed Jack, that's how I do it in my Vermont coverts. Thanks for that quote... I just read it a few weeks ago again for the umpteenth time.

Dean