Galazan .410 bbls for 28 ga Reproductions

[Joe Bernfeld]

I couldn't find anything on Galazan's site about the .410 bbls they'll be selling in Sept. to fit on 28 ga Repro actions, so I called them. I asked them to weigh a set and then mount them on a 28 ga Repro and measure the gap between the bbls and forend. First they said they would, then when I called back they said there were none finished and I should call back in Sept. (which I will). Here's my question. Does it seem possible to make them weigh the same as the 28 ga bbls, and still fit the 28 ga forend wood with no gap? They assured me both of these would be true. I don't know how they can say that if they haven't even finished any yet :shock:. If they are wide enough to fit a 28 ga forend, especially a beavertail which is longer, wouldn't they have to be quite a bit heavier? What do you think?
Joe

[Dave Fuller]

I'd sure want to see a set fit to a gun before I bought them.

[Dean Romig]

I don't see how it's possible. I'm with Dave on seeing a set fitted to a Repro before I laid my money down.

[Kenny Graft]

Parker reproductions always suplied a seperate for end for their 410 barrel set fitted to the 00 28gauge frames. All the guns I have seen for sale had 2 forends. My 410 set will take either forend and snap on O.K. but the 28 forend has 3/16 gap around the sides when in placed on the 410 set and does not look normal, to wide with a gap, Like a free floated barrel on a rifle. I do not think the galazan set can work properly, the barrels have to be the same size as the 28 set with 410 size bores or smaller 410 size barrels and have a small gap with the 28 for end. The 410/28 PG-Dt-SF set I own I have had for a year now....I figure the up cost for the 410 barrel set was 7500.00 in addition to the single barrel guns value. Im sure folks will not mind a small gap in the for end wood to save 5500.00 and still have a working 410 set of barrels. I hope thats the only issue/defect they may have. thanks all, Kenny Graft SXS ohio....(-: Im sure we will get some imput after their out.

[Dean Romig]

Either a gap as Kenny describes or a good 16 oz. additional weight. It has to be one or the other . . . there's no gettin' by it.

[Joe Bernfeld]

Either a gap as Kenny describes or a good 16 oz. additional weight. It has to be one or the other . . . there's no gettin' by it.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. I'll ask them for details in a few weeks and post whatever I find out (if anything) here.
Joe

[Bill Murphy]

I don't care what bad points the new barrels have, I'm going to give them a try.

[Joe Bernfeld]

I don't care what bad points the new barrels have, I'm going to give them a try.

Well, they did tell me they'd refund my money if I didn't like them :rolleyes:.
Joe

[Chris Travinski]

I would think they would refund your money only if they haven't been fit to a gun! I'd look into that before hand. I hope they turn out to be better quality than the last 16 ga. barrels, I would like to get a set too.

[Kenny Graft]

I would recomend that the buyer take his 28ga. along with them to CSM and see the .410 barrels in person prior to any hard fitting...Check for end fit and get the weight of the barrels....at that point a desision could be made to buy and have them fitted to the frame. That said who is going??? thanks, Kenny Graft SXS ohio

[Kenny Graft]

This may be help??? auction no= 200375906633 thanks Kenny

[Joe Bernfeld]

This may be help??? auction no= 200375906633 thanks Kenny

Maybe not since Galazan claims the .410 bbls will be contured to fit the 28 ga forend!
Joe

[Paul D Narlesky]

I am definitely and wholeheartedly cheering you guys on. I really love the idea of a set of 28 ".410 barrels for my 28. They look good in the picture and you will never find a set of original .410 's laying around. The fit and weight would have to be checked out. I sure would'nt want to have them weigh 8lbs or anything. Now we just have to find all the spare parts lost in the flood (or did the pirates take them ? I forget) so we can all get forend wood and metal that will look nice ! Best,Paul

[Bill Davis]

My understanding regarding the "lost" Parker repro parts is that after the insurance company paid the claim, they took possession of the "salvage", as is their right, and refused to sell the salvage, fearing future liability claims. I believe whatever remained was destroyed!

[Dave Miles]

Has anyone received a set of these .410 barrels yet?
Website says they'll be available Sept. 1st.
As is everyone, I'm curious as to how they fit the 28 gauge Repro.

[Greg Baehman]

Like several others here, I too am very much interested in these .410 barrels, but have reservations about the fit and weight. Last nite I happened to take a careful look at the CSMC ad on the back cover of the current issue of Parker Pages and it states "These barrels are being built to order, if you do not order now you will not be able to get a pair. These are available for a VERY limited time."

So, if Tony gets "x" number of orders for a set of these barrels will he produce just this number of barrel sets or will he produce these plus several more sets for the procrastinators?

[Dave Fuller]

If they used the 16ga barrels they sold me as a demonstration model they would never sell one set. Maybe they are waiting to see if they can get enough orders before they set everything up to make them. If the fixed costs are high enough you'd think they'd go ahead and make a few extra while they have everything set up.

[Dave Miles]

If they used the 16ga barrels they sold me as a demonstration model they would never sell one set.


I'd have to agree with you on this Dave.
They shot well, but the fitting job was terrible.

[Kenny Graft]

Has anyone perchased a set? If so how do they fit and ballence?

[Bill Davis]

I've got 3 sets on order, but none have been produced to my knowledge! I'm thinking Summer 2010!

[Greg Baehman]

Bill is correct--none have been produced yet.

Their ad for these replacement barrels states "These barrels are being built to order, if you do not order now you will not be able to get a pair. These are available for a VERY limited time." So not wanting to miss out on the opportunity to buy a pair or two, I called CSMC a few days ago to inquire about them. They told me that they were not yet built and that they were taking orders, I explained that I was looking to purchase a set, but had some reservations as to the fitting of my existing 28-ga. splinter forend wood
around the barrels, the doll's head fit and how much additional weight these .410 barrels would add. Their representative told me that if I was expecting a perfect fit that these barrels probably wouldn't be for me.

[Dean Romig]

Their representative told me that if I was expecting a perfect fit that these barrels probably wouldn't be for me.

That's all I need to know :eek:

[Greg Baehman]

That's all I need to know :eek:

BINGO!

[Bill Murphy]

Has anyone received a set yet?

[Bill Murphy]

Someone on some gun site posted that Lou has told them that none would be finished in 2010.

[Greg Baehman]

That's kinda strange Bill, I spoke with a lady phone receptionist at CSMC about 2 weeks ago and was told by her that "they were currently in the shop and in production".

[Dean Romig]

That really narrows it down....

Galazan's has also stated that after a certain date no orders would be accepted - it was either EOM January or February as I recall.

There is also some question as to Galazan fitting them properly and with precision to our guns.

Has anyone spoken with Tony or Lou recently to ask their current position on this venture?

[Greg Baehman]

That really narrows it down....

Galazan's has also stated that after a certain date no orders would be accepted - it was either EOM January or February as I recall.

There is also some question as to Galazan fitting them properly and with precision to our guns.

Has anyone spoken with Tony or Lou recently to ask their current position on this venture?

Dean, I do not claim to be on-top-of-it, but I do have an interest in these barrels, so I've been keeping a keen eye and ear open regarding them---I have not heard that these Parker barrels had an ordering deadline other than what their ad in Parker Pages had stated: "These barrels are being built to order, if you do not order now you will not be able to get a pair. These are available for a VERY limited time." I did get a couple of e-mails from CSMC and have seen other ads that have stated their RBL offerings for order will be terminated on 1/31/10.

[Bill Murphy]

I want a set of the .410 barrels but I want them in my hands to fool around with before I commit to sending my gun anywhere for fitting. I want to give the fitting a shot before I let anyone else do it. The doll's head will be the biggest problem, as it was with the Krieghoff barrels.

[Greg Baehman]

I want a set of the .410 barrels but I want them in my hands to fool around with before I commit to sending my gun anywhere for fitting. I want to give the fitting a shot before I let anyone else do it. The doll's head will be the biggest problem, as it was with the Krieghoff barrels.

Ditto that Bill. When I called CSMC a couple of weeks ago to inquire specifically about them Lou was backed up with customers, so I asked the office lady to request Lou or Tony to give me a call me back...I wanted to know--if I would order a set, would they send them to me in-the-white so I could first check for potential fit, if the fit looked promising (doll's head and forend) I would then have them engraved to match the breech end of my existing Repro's engraving and then I'd send them back to them for bluing...I haven't received a call back.

[Bill Murphy]

I wouldn't mind doing the same thing, getting a set in the white so I could file and engrave on them. Let me know when Tony or Lou gets back to you. Bill Murphy

[Greg Baehman]

Of course, they'd have my money before sending them out and it would be understood that they'd only issue a refund if I did not alter them in any way. What's wrong with that, given the reservations all of us have? Tony, Lou are you monitoring this thread?

[Dean Romig]

Greg, I may have confused one ad with the other. I don't mean to throw gas of the fire without just cause.

Dean

[Bob Jurewicz]

I want a set of the .410 barrels but I want them in my hands to fool around with before I commit to sending my gun anywhere for fitting. I want to give the fitting a shot before I let anyone else do it. The doll's head will be the biggest problem, as it was with the Krieghoff barrels.

Was the fitting problem with the original barrels making up the Repro 16/20 G sets (approximately 500) made by Krieghoff for Winchester or those commissioned by CSMC which were void of Krieghoff markings???
I have an original set of Krieghoff Winchester 16 G barrels that are unfitted and they look to be very simple to match with any 20G Repro I select.
Bob Jurewicz

[Dave Fuller]

I believe the "fitting problem" is in reference to the CSMC 16 ga barrels which, if I recall correctly, were made by Merkel. They are devoid of markings except for a serial number, guage, and chamber length on the barrel flats plus a frame size stamp on the lug.

[Bill Murphy]

We had to almost give away what we think was a factory two barrel set with Krieghoff barrels because the doll's head was so poorly fitted. I don't know if Krieghoff or Skeuse fitted them, I'm assuming Skeuse. Krieghoff had them white and unengraved and could have easily done a better job. I assume most of the 16-20 sets were much better.

[Greg Baehman]

Actually Bill, according to the Shotgun Sports article by Sisley it was reported that the barrels were fit by Krieghoff.
http://parkerguns.org/forums/album.php?albumid=99&pictureid=1027

[Dean Romig]

There are several variables in fitting either a set of Krieghoff barrels or the CSMC/Merkel barrels to a Reproduction. Certainly one is the expertise of the person fitting them and the care in which the barrels are machined and filed. Another important consideration is the height of the barrel breeches from the flats to the topmost level of the dolls head extension as compared to the standing breech of the frame from the water tables to the upper extremity of the recess in the frame where the doll's head sits.

[Dave Fuller]

The lug, bolt plate and how they engage the guns bolt are important as well.... my gun won't lock up properly with the CSMC barrels. I've always wondered if they would work on a different 0-frame gun but have never tried it.

[Dean Romig]

You're right Dave but I'm not sure it would make any difference which Repro frame they are fitted to. Barrel sets will usually fit between one Repro to another - the greatest issue might be the position of the lever, there being only the difference of one or two thousandths of an inch involved in 1/2" in lever position.

Describe the problem you are having in lock up?

[Dave Fuller]

I've complained about this problem a number of times on this board and I hate to do it again but these barrels make me so d*** angry I'll do it one last time. Photo below shows the gun when its closed (you can see the barrels are tight on the breech). The only way to get the lever over is to slam the gun shut or wiggle and giggle the lever till it moves over. I paid to have them fit to my gun and here's what i got. Seller does not respond to emails or phone calls.

[Dean Romig]

My 16 Ga. set fits about the same as yours in the doll's head area. My lever comes over and the gun locks up alright but the beavertail forend falls off in my hand at about every third shot. Lou tells me "send it back, we'll make it right." I shouldn't complain because I have never given them that opportunity yet.

[Dave Fuller]

He told me NOT to send it back... "it would wear in." Subsequent emails and phone calls have been ignored. I don't use it because I'm afraid it will damage my gun. Very very disappointing, especially when the tab was over 2 Grand.

[Bill Murphy]

Greg, popular legend has it that 500 Repros were sent to Krieghoff for fitting, but there were more barrels that were not fitted at Krieghoff. I don't know what the total 16 gauge barrel production was, but barrels were offered by Skeuse for fitting here.

[Bill Davis]

500 set of 16 ga barrels were made by Merkel for the Parker repros. Not all of them were used up before they quit making the guns. About 4-5 years ago I obtained 8 sets of the original 16 ga barrels that were off premises. The remainder were submerged in the flood that also destroyed the rest of the Parker repro parts. Actually they were obtained as salvage by the insurance company after they settled the loss. They were then destroyed and not resold, I was told, to avoid any potential liability on the ins. company.

[Dean Romig]

Bill Davis,

It has always been common knowledge that the original 16 ga. barrel sets that were "lost" in the flood were those made by Krieghoff. This is the first time I've ever heard they were Merkel barrels.... You sure about that?

[Bill Davis]

Sorry--You are right. I meant to say Krieghoff--NOT Merkel. The ICD barrels in 16 ga. were made by Merkel. Sorry for any confusion.

[Don Kaas]

Dave- although it is tough to diagnose these things remotely, there are a limited number of things that would prevent your toplever from snapping back on these barrels (presuming they function properly on the original set). I suspicions (as Ho'ace Miller was wont to say...) that the bolt is hanging up on the wear plate (mostly likely the angle of the plate is just a hair shallow. As one can not mess with the bolt on a 2 barrel set, a little engineers blue (or magic marker) on the plate might show you the spot and a stroke or two with a stone might make it work normally. Ideally, you could fix this easily and still complain about in retrospect..a win/win situation for you...:)

[Dave Fuller]

Don - I "suspicioned" the same thing and did file the bolt plate down a little (didn't want to get carried away). I next "suspicioned" it may be hanging on the side where the little flange on the bolt hits the side of the wear plate. I tried using some lamp black to diagnose exactly where the problem might be but no clear trouble spot was evident. I need to just send it off to someone and stop b****ing. I apologize for being so negative about these barrels but every time I read one of these threads smoke blows out of my ears.

[Don Kaas]

These problems can be frustrating...I've been there and done that.

[Dean Romig]

Dave, I recommend Russ Bickel.

[Chuck Heald]

I tossed in my deposit a few days ago, then went and found a 28g Repro to use them on. Found a nice one at Jaqua's. Then decided to register on this forum. I have a couple other Parkers, both damascus #1 frame 12g.

I called Lou before buying the barrels. He said the barrels are a one time production run. A day later, a lady called from CSM and told me they didn't expect to run the .410 barrels for quite some time, the 410 barrels being the last of all the gauges to be made. She said it could be as much as a year from now. Then she asked if I wanted to cancel my order. I didn't. I'll wait.

[Dean Romig]

Hey Chuck, welcome! Is Jaqua's still selling off their "last batch" or are they just continuing trading in Repros?

Tell us about your 1-frame 12's.

Dean

[Chuck Heald]

Hi Dean,
My 28g is a secondhand one that someone closeted. It's been fired but not much. 28" M/F straight stock, SST. splinter. It was a consigned gun.

The #1 frame guns are both G grade extractor guns. One is a 28" pistol grip gun that has been restocked nicely. The other is a 26" straight stocked gun that I'm in the middle of restocking and has .040/.005 chokes and is a great little upland gun.

I had to re-lay the ribs on the 28" gun. It was my first job re-laying ribs. I had been working up to such a job and searched and prodded for information on how to do it. I found it fairly straightforward. I won't go so far as to say it was easy, but it wasn't terribly difficult either. I did a tutorial with pics on it as I went and posted on doublegunshop.com. RevDocDrew (Drew Hause) posted most of it on his doublegun knowledge website. http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/18691676
I did some experimentation on a sample damascus tube with some of the information that Dr Gaddy published along with some of my old emails with him. I got a great result for a black and white pattern and I'm ready to do the barrels I re-layed .

[Dean Romig]

I don't know if I'd have the guts to tackle a rib re-laying job even though one of my Parkers could benefit from it.
Have you shot the gun since re-laying it? I wonder if POI is affected by such work...
People like Drew and the late Oscar are invaluable to the double gun community - we're lucky to have such people.

[Chuck Heald]

Dean,
I've shot it on a board as well as clays and hunted it since the job. No problems. I spent a lot of time ensuring it went back together just as it had come apart.

[Chuck Heald]

Here's the 28" GH
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/roaniecowpony/Parkerwphez-1.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/roaniecowpony/clsuprtsidercvr.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/roaniecowpony/rcvrbottomntriggerguard.jpg

[Dave Suponski]

Chuck,Who did those barrels?

[Chuck Heald]

Dave,
In the pics, a friend had finished the barrels. It turned out I needed to relay the ribs and did so. I haven't recolored them yet. I spent some time learning how on a sample and I'm now confident enough to redo them.

Here's my sample

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/roaniecowpony/5etchaftermanyrusts.jpg

[Dean Romig]

Nice work on the Damascus.

The rest of the gun looks like Turnbull's work - is it?

That's a very nice GH... I'm very envious.

[Chuck Heald]

Dean,
It's Turnbull's finishes on the receiver, forend and triggerguard. The prep was by a friend. Also, the stockwork was by a friend using my blank.

[Dean Romig]

I'm impressed with the stock. The wood is very nice but I'm more impressed with the attention your stocker paid to executing the detail of an original Parker Bros. stock - the fluting at the nose of the comb and the delicate lines at the wrist and throughout the stock. Can we see a better picture of the checkering pattern?

[Dave Suponski]

Chuck,Thanks for the reply.Your damascus sample is very very nice!

[Chuck Heald]

Dean,
Here you go.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/roaniecowpony/DSC_6257.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/roaniecowpony/DSC_6259.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/roaniecowpony/DSC_6265.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/roaniecowpony/DSC_6274.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/roaniecowpony/DSC_6277.jpg

[Chuck Heald]

Dave,
That sample is from a section of what was believed to be Lefever barrels. Based on the pattern, I'd say at least F grade or higher. It's a very fine pattern and presents better in an enlarged picture like the post I made. I think one or two more cycles of blueing and etching/carding would darken the pattern a bit more.

I basically rust blued 4-5 cycles with Pilkingtons as normal (rust, boil, card), then used an etch bath of circuit board etchant (40-45% ferric chloride out of the bottle) diluted 6 parts water to one part CB etch. Dip the barrel (sample) in the diluted solution of etch for 10 secs, flood with water and card (scrub) with 000 steelwool. Repeated 2 more rust blue cycles, then etch/card. That was about it by memory. You can keep going on the blue/etch/card cycles and it darkens each time. The number of times you rust blue between etches seems to be forgiving.

[Dean Romig]

Chuck, the checkering is true to Parker Bros. grade 2 perfectly. What a nice job he does!

I wish I had the nerve to try refinishing Damascus barrels...

[Chuck Heald]

Dean,
Overall, I think my friend does a better quality job on the stocks than most of the low and mid grade vintage guns had from the factory.

On the damascus finishing, if you're already doing rust blueing, the damascus refinishing is just a little more effort, but not too technical. At least in my one part sample experience.