China ? NO NO NO.

[david ross]

I now have three great parker books.
1 The parker gun an immortal american classic by Larry L. Baer.
2 Parker guns the old Reliable by Ed Muderlak.
3 Parker Guns Shooting Flying and the American Experience.
What a wonderful read they all are:rotf:

1 bound and printed in the USA
3 bound and printed in the USA With pride as it should be

2 bound and printed in USA NO CHINA ?:eek:
To me the parker gun is a American icon and the books and all the other things that make the name PARKER a true USA icon should be american not
made in china? At 60 years young my be i'm out of touch:crying:
I hope this doe's not offend any one as it is my own opinion:bigbye:

[Francis Morin]

I will NOT own or use a made in : China, Korea, Tibet, Japan_ car, tool etc. They did an article on USA made products on ABC evening news- Levi Strauus jeans, Rawlings and Wilson baseball gloves, Louisville sluggers bats, balls, sports equipment- ONLY the Louisville slugger is still made in the USA today--Best bumper stick I have yet seen about this trend-- WALLY-MART- Where America Buys Its Cheap Chinese-Made Crap!!:cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::banghead::banghead: :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::eek:

[david ross]

Hi Francis.
I really wish more people had your atitude if only folks stopped buying all this cheap foreign rubbish and brought home produced goods.Then we might all be better of and what a good bumper sticker brilliant.
Thanks Dave .

[Gregory Miller]

In the 19th century the tongue in cheek coal miners lament was "sold my soul to the Company Store". In the 21st Century the Chinese bought the Company Store. :crying:

Having said that, my car keys still say GM. And, last time I checked The Parker Story was published here.

[Dean Romig]

I well remember the old days when anything "Made In Japan" was strictly forbidden in my house as it was in nearly every home in America for a few decades after VJ Day, and probably still is especially in the homes of those who lost a loved one to that war.

Today we are fighting a different war... the war to keep this country economically alive and to get Americans back to work. It's always good to do business in your own community or town just to keep the local economy healthy. I know that is "old fashioned thinking" but sometimes we just have to get back to our roots. Today, in my home, we're doing our best to buy "Made In USA".

[Milton Starr]

Made in japan is different though then made in china . My browning bps is made in japan but no one else makes a pump 10 ga. One reason I plan to learn cadcam and cnc machine at college is.so I can learn to make not good.but great american guns. Nowadays people just want what's cheap and easy but its not working for us . Then again from what I read made in america isn't working for the new ithaca.

[william faulk]

We will never have a war with China..they could never drop a bomb here as they probably would destroy their own properties..what a disgrace ! :cuss:

[Francis Morin]

Made in japan is different though then made in china . My browning bps is made in japan but no one else makes a pump 10 ga. One reason I plan to learn cadcam and cnc machine at college is.so I can learn to make not good.but great american guns. Nowadays people just want what's cheap and easy but its not working for us . Then again from what I read made in america isn't working for the new ithaca.-- Times have changed- when my late Granddad did his apprenticeship as a machinist-he got a rough cube of HRS, a bench vise (Parker & Snow) set of files (Nicholson) and a Try-Square (Starrett or Stanley) and he had to file to a dead perfect cube- no gaps anywhere along the blade of the square--Cad-Cam and CNC machining (Cincinnati, Bridgeport- etc.) all have advanced the tool & die industry- I hope you will find a good skilled trade job, Milt- after you finish that much needed education in today's world- I have seen and shot some of the Japanese Browning guns- also the Parker repros- they are good as copying the originals, witness the great German optics now copied at lower cost in Japan and China and marketed by Cabela's and other Big Volume stores-

Today, we lose new hunters to the changing world- PETA, anti-gun, less available farmlands- in the Soil Bank and CRP days, with smaller farms dotting our heartland, not too difficult to get permission to hunt- today, the smaller farm era is gone- large corporate farms are the norm in many places, and some hunting is becoming like in England and Europe- the pleasure of the very rich- Likewise, the niche for older side-by-sides and other fine weapons of our forebearers is a diminishing segment- some of us collect and treasure such things, as they bring back memories in our hands of days we will never see again- my late father used to tell me, when I was about 12 and by then an avid bird and duck hunter- "Son, enjoy this privilege of being on a farmer's land, 20 years or so from now, it will be a golf course or a apartment complex-" I didn't want to believe him then, but he was right-:crying::crying::crying::eek::cool:

[david ross]

Made in japan is different though then made in china . My browning bps is made in japan but no one else makes a pump 10 ga. One reason I plan to learn cadcam and cnc machine at college is.so I can learn to make not good.but great american guns. Nowadays people just want what's cheap and easy but its not working for us . Then again from what I read made in america isn't working for the new ithaca.

Hi Milton.
If you like guns made in japan all well and good each to there own as they
say. I hope you do well in college and do make great american guns you never
know i may buy one.As for the ithaca i have a old 1967 -37 pump and i just
love that old gun i hope the new one will make it ithaca really deserve to they
are great American guns.:cool:
All the best Dave.:bigbye:

[Milton Starr]

Ithink though most americans wont pay the price it cost make a gun here with machined not stamped parts. Well except people who hunted at the plantation. Im not to worried about gums disappearing . There are some 80 million guns In the US I as ive read it.also there was a servey. In the U.K 75% of.people didn't agree with hunting. Now in the usa 75% said it didn't bother them. I have a neighbor who has a large collection of guns and he is a coach on a skeet shotgun team. He acts like he should only have.guns kinda like the hunting for the rich you mentioned. The machine shop teacher here builds scaled models of steam engines for a hobby. Pretty smart guy

[david ross]

Hi Milton.
As you say alot of illinformed people in the UK are against hunting shooting ect but we will
never let them win . Hunting shooting and fishing are a way of life in the UK and we will
not let them take that from us. As in the words of SIR WINSTON CHURCHILL WE SHALL
NEVER SURENDER.

[Milton Starr]

Hunting is a hobby and our right to do it. The is with guns people.who aren't around them or spend time around them develop a misunderstanding of.what they are. Its like I tell people though no matter what I will have me a shotgun till I die.one of.my favorite hunting videos is of a british gentleman hunting on the shore line with a tolley 8 ga.

[Dean Romig]

Hunting is a hobby and our right to do it. The is with guns people.who aren't around them or spend time around them develop a misunderstanding of.what they are.

The key to the future of firearms and the shooting sports in any country that still enjoys them is the education of the uninformed and to show them how safe it is and how much fun shooting can be. And, of course, getting young people involved and interested will help to ensure the survival of the shooting sports.

[Francis Morin]

Hi Milton.
As you say alot of illinformed people in the UK are against hunting shooting ect but we will
never let them win . Hunting shooting and fishing are a way of life in the UK and we will
not let them take that from us. As in the words of SIR WINSTON CHURCHILL WE SHALL
NEVER SURENDER.--Not as long as they had the US of A as an ally anyway--Luck favored the Limeys in the WW2 era- the "Lend-lease" scam that FDR cooked up, the superior Radar system that give the brave RAF pilots a "head's up" when old Fat-Boy- Call Me Meyer- Herman Goring's Luftwaffe was headed for the olde white cliffs o'Dover- the great Supermarine Spitfire that could go head to head with the ME-109 and Fock-Wulf fighters, the lucky escape from Dunkirk (when the Wehrmacht stopped to regroup) and the biggest coup discovering the German enigma code from a captured U-Boat the Kreigsmarine considered to have been sunk- the sequestered code breakers could read every German message after that-- Old fat Winnie with his cigars and his ever present glass of whiskey was the right man for the job back in those dark and dangerous days, when Germany under the maniac leader could have taken all of Europe- 1940-- only when Hitler went against his General Staff's advice and decided to attack Russia and have a two-front war- did the whells start to come off for Germany-IMO. But as the sage once so wisely said- "A prophet is without honor (or honour for the Limeys) in his home country" so right after the war ended, Winnie was out of a job-- as Gen. Patton was often fond of saying-- "All fame is fleeting"!!

[david ross]

Hi Francis.
I think the battle of Britain was the turning point of the war for us in England
owr first victory over the Nazis. Then after that came victory in north africa
and the end of the africa core for the germans the race to Egypt was over.
As Churchill said in 1940 before the USA came in to ww2 although we could have never of won that war with out the USA by our side.
Winnies tridute to the RAF. :cool:
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many by so few
and if the british empire shall last a thousand years people will say this was
there finest hour. As i write these words it brings a lump to my throut.
Sorry to go on abought old winney but he is a hero of mine and i think the
greatest English man ever to live althought his mother was a American.
So if you have a hero fly your flag for them.
All the best Dave .:bigbye:
P.S. As you fought by our side ww2 as you fight to day in Afghanistan by our
side once more. My God protect all our troops were ever thay are.

[Francis Morin]

Hi Francis.
I think the battle of Britain was the turning point of the war for us in England
owr first victory over the Nazis. Then after that came victory in north africa
and the end of the africa core for the germans the race to Egypt was over.
As Churchill said in 1940 before the USA came in to ww2 although we could have never of won that war with out the USA by our side.
Winnies tridute to the RAF. :cool:
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many by so few
and if the british empire shall last a thousand years people will say this was
there finest hour. As i write these words it brings a lump to my throut.
Sorry to go on abought old winney but he is a hero of mine and i think the
greatest English man ever to live althought his mother was a American.
So if you have a hero fly your flag for them.
All the best Dave .:bigbye:
P.S. As you fought by our side ww2 as you fight to day in Afghanistan by our
side once more. My God protect all our troops were ever thay are.-Rommel depended on shipments of crucial supplies, including parts and ammo for his Afrika Corps- the Germans in their alliance with the Italians thought, with their code intact, they owned the shipping lanes from Italy to the North coast of Africa- once the Allies had the code key, they knew the details of every shipment to Rommel, and many ships went down in the Med Sea with his much needed supply chain broken- It did Rommel little good to capture Tobruck intact- except for food and medicine- as the Brits and the American tanks ran on gasoline, the Panzer Tanks on diesel fuel-- Montgomery was no match for the wily Rommel- Die Wiestul Fuchs-- it took someone like George Patton to defeat Rommel, and that might not have happened without the code breakers "lucky break". I can only wonder how the European theatre might have turned out if Patton had not slapped the coward in the field hospital in Sicily!!:bigbye:

[david ross]

-Rommel depended on shipments of crucial supplies, including parts and ammo for his Afrika Corps- the Germans in their alliance with the Italians thought, with their code intact, they owned the shipping lanes from Italy to the North coast of Africa- once the Allies had the code key, they knew the details of every shipment to Rommel, and many ships went down in the Med Sea with his much needed supply chain broken- It did Rommel little good to capture Tobruck intact- except for food and medicine- as the Brits and the American tanks ran on gasoline, the Panzer Tanks on diesel fuel-- Montgomery was no match for the wily Rommel- Die Wiestul Fuchs-- it took someone like George Patton to defeat Rommel, and that might not have happened without the code breakers "lucky break". I can only wonder how the European theatre might have turned out if Patton had not slapped the coward in the field hospital in Sicily!!:bigbye:

Hi Francis.
Yes i think your right monty was not a match for Rommel he was to cautious
and did not push as Patton did but the 8th army desert rats were and got the
job done I have a feeling that if Patton and his tanks had gone up that road
to Arnhem our 6th airbourne boys would of taken that bridge.
Monty was good at the set peace battle but he would not take a chance as
Patton would.

All the best Dave.:bigbye:

[Francis Morin]

Worked well for Frederick The Great and George Patton too- but Patton's ace in the hole was Colonel Wm. Koch -his brilliant G-2 Chief--:bigbye:

[Rich Anderson]

Unfortunatly the focus is on price & profit not quality. i pick up my newest shotgun tomorrow, made in London in 1954:) Quality in anything beats price. the cost of something is long forgotten when it falls apart. How many things being made today anywhere in the world will be working in 50, or 150 years from now? If something is still working then will it's value have increased dramatically? I think the ansers are No & No:whistle:

[david ross]

Unfortunatly the focus is on price & profit not quality. i pick up my newest shotgun tomorrow, made in London in 1954:) Quality in anything beats price. the cost of something is long forgotten when it falls apart. How many things being made today anywhere in the world will be working in 50, or 150 years from now? If something is still working then will it's value have increased dramatically? I think the ansers are No & No:whistle:

Hi Richard.
Would like to see your new London gun made in 1954 please could you
post a pict or two with some details.
All the best Dave. :bigbye:

[Rich Anderson]

I'll post some pics in the Other fine doubles forum soon. I'm not good at this and need to be walked through the process.

The details are it's a Holland & Holland 20 ga, 26 inch bbls straight grip with just a wonderfull piece of Marble cake walnut in it. There is a factory letter and the gun is exactly as it left the factory in 1954. It was sold originally in London. Cased with the original owners name embossed on the Oak and Leather case. Weight 5lb 9oz a Grouse/Woodcock gun for sure:cheers:

[david ross]

Hi Richard.
Sounds like a very nice gun H.H 20 Bore a man could wait a life time for a gun like that.
All the best Dave.

[charlie cleveland]

some people have all the luck...nice find richard...that gun may be a grouse gun for sure but i betcha she would be a fine quail gun and i would not be surprized if it mite not be a good phez gun... waiting for pictures charlie and the rest of the gang

[Milton Starr]

Lots of guns are aluminum nowadays but me personally like my shotguns 9 lbs + . I think my crass was made in 1891 if they made hammerless crass at that time? I think its serial number is 150xx ithaca said they lost records on numbers from 10,000-16000. I like the simple yet sturdy mechanisms of yesteryear

[Dean Romig]

Hey Rich... Where are the pictures???

( to think,... I had that gun in my hands {put 'despair and anguish' emoticon here} :crying:)

[Rich Anderson]

Dean there in my mind waiting to be developed:rotf: Actually I'll try to take them tonight and get them posted on the Other Fine Doubles section....If I can get the O.P. to walk me through the process:eek:

[Milton Starr]

Talking about made in america any of y'all heard of Butch searcy. That's my icon. He males fine sxs rifles not shotguns yet.though

[Rich Anderson]

The Holland & Holland pics are up in the "Other Fine Doubles" catagory titled British Best. My thanks to the O.P. AKA Dave Suponski hor walking me through this quagmire of Technology:bowdown:

I have herd of Butch Searcy and he makes a fine double rifle. A 450/400 would make a fine deer rifle:eek:. I hear you snickering but I've used my 416 Taylor befor:D