aluminum shotshell head sticking in chamber

[bruce willis]

I'm new to this forum. I have a 1906 VH parker 12 gauge #2 frame shotgun I hunt ducks with. I bought some cheap winchester 12 gauge ranger target loads to practice with (not the good AA loads). they seem to have an aluminum shell head instead of the old brass type. When I shoot these loads, it is very difficult to open the action, and extract the empty shell casings. My gun functions fine with winchester AA loads, remington lite target, and other quality ammunition that uses brass shell heads. Does the aluminum shell head expand too much causing too much friction making the shell difficult to extract out of the chambers? These same shells are also hard to extract out of remington 870 also which will chamber, and shoot anything. my VH is in very good condition, 60% case color, 90 % blue and stock finish, tight good wood, all original, bores and chambers clean and no pitting. For duck hunting I use the tungstin matrix 1 1/8 #5 paper loads. I baby my old VH, but these shells shoot good out of my 30" f/f barrels. Does anyone have any ideas or experiences with the aluminum shell head ammunition?

[John Dunkle]

Hi Bruce!

First - welcome to the forum...!

Second - it's not the expansion of the head case, but rather the (lack of - in the case of these shells) contraction once fired. In other words, those shells are NOT what you really want to shoot - and it is not Parker specific. Rather - those shells should be relegated to a modern 12 GA with a really strong extractor/ejector. I used those shells only once in a BT-100 and had the same problem. To try to finish up the box - I tried them in a Prussian Daly SxS vent rib trap. Same problem...

For inexpensive shells try Rio's which do go BANG (about 99.8% of the time - it's a primer problem with Rios?) but they do have brass and will extract just fine..

Anyway - now you have gotten over your first post - so we expect pictures of your VH next.. She sounds great!

John

[Jim Williams]

Are they aluminum, or steel? See if a magnet will stick to them. I have had the problem with Winchesters before, too. The promo loads at Wal-Mart have steel heads, as do the Federals, but the Federals usually extract fine, and I reload those same steel-head Fed. hulls for my low-pressure (damascus gun) target and hunting loads with few problems. Every now and then one will stick, but I know ahead of time that it will because the gun will be hard to close as well. I'm 99% certain that this is caused by a rim that is slightly oversized, and is sticking in the chamber rim recess on both closing, and opening after firing. But even then, they don't stick badly so I go ahead and shoot them, then toss that hull in the garbage when I extract it.

Jim

[Dave Miles]

The short answer is, Don't use those shells.

[Dean Romig]

Hey Dave, I've been wondering - Did Larry Frey loan you his hat for that avatar photo?

[Dave Miles]

No Dean, I bought it from Shepler's Western Store. It's a pretty cool hat.
Better than those cheap $3.00 straw hats. I got a little shit from Anderson about it. :)

[Kevin McCormack]

John;

I have never heard of a cartridge (rifle or shotgun) contracting once it has been fired. It doesn't make any sense what with all the pressure, heat and expansion of ductible materials (think of "fire-forming" rifle brass in chambers slightly larger than the designed-for cartridge in order to expand the case to fit a larger chamber).

I recently had a terrible problem with reloaded Remington Premier STS shells in 28ga. I even ran a box thru my humble MEC 600 Jr., which probably has the best full-length resizing die made on a commercial press, to check whether or not it was my MEC 9000G progressive press not adequately full-length resizing (this after I tore the 9000G down and readjusted everything. No difference whatsoever! - they still stuck after firing, even resisting the very powerful ejection systems of both my Belgian Brownings and my Citoris, arguably some of the strongest in a double gun.

You could see the bulges around the upper orbit of the case head, which is made out of some mystery metal, like the rest of the hull. Bad hulls give bad crimps, and I had plenty of those also. I finally just heavily lubricated the chambers with way too much oil and everything worked great, except the cleanup was a little messy.

Your comment on RIO shotshells is right on - they are my ammo of choice in both the 28 and .410 ga. Every once in a great while I'll get a hull with no shot in it or some other weird thing, but for price and volume shooting they are my favorite.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Bruce,

Good man, shooting ducks with a Parker, there are several of us on here that use them as our dedicated waterfowling guns and wouldn't have anything else.

I've been shooting the Kent TM shells through a #2 frame DHE for a long time and always had good luck. I even use the 1 1/4 ounce loads without any problems.


Destry

[John Dunkle]

Hi Kevin,

Actually - the way I understand it - given the elasticity of brass - it will "shrink" a bit upon release of pressure, although not to it's original size (fire-forming is a perfect example!). By comparison, steel will not "shrink", and for example caused some problems during wartime manufacture of steel cased ammo in even some straight walled rounds (.30 carbine) as steel doesn't have the elasticity of brass, so would cause extraction issues.

Anyway - I could be wrong - and often am.. ;)

John

John;

I have never heard of a cartridge (rifle or shotgun) contracting once it has been fired. It doesn't make any sense what with all the pressure, heat and expansion of ductible materials (think of "fire-forming" rifle brass in chambers slightly larger than the designed-for cartridge in order to expand the case to fit a larger chamber).....

[bruce willis]

thanks all for the information. this forum is really interesting. I've been a member of the pgca for 2-3 years and really like it. My VH is in great shape but it is a working gun and my "go to" duck gun. We hunt the sacramento delta in small boats or canoes and is hard on guns. I'm old school as compared to my friends shooting benelli"s but I like the old guns. One friend has a beautiful DH 12 gauge, but is afraid to shoot it even in a dry duck blind. I shoot mine but I take good care of it too. thanks again BW.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Sounds like you boys out there are "die hard" type duck hunters. *wink*

Destry

[Kevin McCormack]

"Die hard", indeed! Were you down there that day at Deal Island with us when we sat all morning with a single or two boring into the rig, overcast and cloudy, with the water all "nervous' and the retrievers antsy and whimpering? Temps in the low 30's and a fickle wind made us start to pick up the decoys right before 11:30AM when all of a sudden it went dead calm, the temperature dropped to the upper teens, and a howling wind out of the NW spun our "soft-anchored" boat blind 180 degrees to the gale?

Something told us to stay put; rearranged some brush on the windward side and made the dogs lay low hard. About 10 minutes past noon the sky went the color of the Kansas prarie with a tornado coming and on they came - Cans, blacks, mallards, gadwalls, and our favorite, the widgeon. We had a couple of all-white-painted Carry Lite Canada goose decoys made up to look like Tundra Swan, which the baldpates love, even painted on the black eye masks on them. At the time (1979) MD was on the point system and the widgeon was a 10-poit duck (as opposed to 90 pts. for a hen mallard, a drake can, or a black duck).

We actually had time to pick out the drakes and about every 25 minutes a nice bunch of baldpates would drill the rig. Buddy Charlie Lewis and I were both shooting Remington 870pumps with IC barrels (sorry, Parkerphiles) and 3 1/4 dram, 1 1/4 oz #5 lead shot (legal then), the decoy shooter's "dream load". We killed 20 Widgeon, our limit of 10 each, in about 35 minutes. By the time the dogs brought back all the ducks to the boat and we knocked down the brush from the rig and picked up the decoys, it was blowing a full gale and bitter cold.

By the time we made the half-hour run back to the boat ramp, it looked like it was dusk (actually 2PM) and tracer-bullet snowflakes were raking the marsh. When we skidded the boat up on the trailer, the dogs and all our gear inside the boat went sliding off the seats and floorboards - all skim ice by this time!

Never will forget that day - December 11, 1979, Deal Island Maryland!

[Dean Romig]

Love that story Kevin. You are 'style' personified! Great style - great storytelling.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I was trying to make a weak joke there Kevin, apparently nobody caught it but me. Our new friends name is Bruce Willis, I assumed with that moniker he had to be a "Die Hard" duck hunter.

Destry

P.S. to Bruce: Sorry, I'm sure you get sick of people making up that sort of thing in relation to your name. I'm named after a movie cowboy and have suffered jibes about it all my life so I felt free to poke a little fun. *wink*