How many Top Action guns made without Dolls Head?

[Mark Ouellette]

Gentlemen (and any ladies),

The Parker story states that the Top Action (top lever) guns started production in 1882. It further states that the Dolls Head was added shortly thereafter, or perhaps it states after 1882.

1. Does anyone know how many Top Action guns were made without a Dolls Head?

2. Is there a breakdown by grade for Top Actions without a Dolls Head?

Respectfully,
Mark

[Dean Romig]

Mark, I believe that when Parker Bros. made an improvement or modification to the design 'standard' records of which serial numbers to be manufactured to this new 'standard' were not kept. I think an educated guess is the best we can come up with.

[Mark Ouellette]

Thanks Dean!

Okay, of the appoximately 5000 Parkers made in 1882, what percentage would be, based on our best statistical deduction, Top Actions?

This is assuming that all production of Top Actions made in 1882 would not have a Dolls Head.

Thanks,
mark

[Eric Eis]

Like I told you at the show I have "No" idea.... Be interesting what others that know about these guns come up with. Would be an interesting article for the Parker Pages. Eric

[Dean Romig]

What are the statistics upon which we can base our "statistical deductions"?

[Mark Ouellette]

Dean,

I was hoping that you would know :)

[Dave Suponski]

I would think less than 5%. Top lever guns without the dolls head are rarely seen. There was some discussion awhile ago that pigeon ring competetors liked guns without the dolls head for speed in loading.

[Mark Ouellette]

I had previously thought that I got short changed because my Grade 2 doesn't have a Dolls Head!

Eris and "Inspector Parker" Kurt D. spotted the missing Dolls Head immediately and informed me, "A top action withour a dolls head is pretty rare!"

Thanks Eric and Kurt!

[Bill Murphy]

Hammerless without dolls head except Trojans are very rare. There is no known way to tell how many were made.

[Austin W Hogan]

I think this Folsom order has been shown before. There is a note Top Action Ext Rib at the upper left. The orders on this page are in the 26 - 29000 serial range.
The first top actions appearred in the upper 24000 s/n range. 26145 has an extension. I think TPS estimates the number without extension at about 1000. There was a top action for sale at Vintagers about 5 years ago that did not have the extension.

Best, Austin

[todd allen]

I would think less than 5%. Top lever guns without the dolls head are rarely seen. There was some discussion awhile ago that pigeon ring competetors liked guns without the dolls head for speed in loading.
I don't know why there would be a need for speed in loading for the pigeon ring.

[Bill Murphy]

OK, that may be true, but about the only guns specifically ordered in the hammerless era "without doll's head" are competition guns. If not pigeon shooters, then trap shooters. Has anyone seen a hammerless graded small gauge gun without doll's head? I have not seen such a gun.

[Kurt Densmore]

Top lever hammer guns without dolls head extension per tables in the grades chaper in TPS: Grade 0 and 2 only

grade 0 724 out of 23426 1:33
grade 1 no table (144) out of 4325
grade 2 283 out of 7547 1:27
grade 3 no table (45) out of 1337
grade 4 no table (3) out of 100
grade 5 no table (2) out of 71
grade 6 no table (1) out of 32

Total estimate 1202

One could probably use the two two available tables to set up a ratio for the rest of the grades. Some sort of estimate could be determined. I am assuming it would only apply to grade 0 to grade 6. Per the 1:33 and the 1:27 I will average it to 1:30 for the other grades and put the approximate value in parentheses, with some rounding off of course. I am making the assumption that there were also non dolls head guns made in other than grade 0 and 2..........not sure why they wouldn't have been. Maybe the grade 1 wasn't available at the time ?? If that is the case then the total may very well be 1007 as shown in the two tables.

[Jeff Kuss]

Bill,
I have a twenty ga Vh without a dolls head and without a safety. It has 26" barrels and a ball grip.
Jeff

[Bill Murphy]

Jeff, have you ever shared the provenance on that great gun with us?

[Jeff Kuss]

Bill,
I have mentioned it in the past. Serial # is 126522. Shipped Oct. 8 1904 to O. W. Gaines of Meriden Conn. lop 14 1/4 DAC 1 5/8 DAH 2 1/2 Weight 6 lbs. RH Cyl LH Mod. Brain spasm, Barrels 28" not 26".

[John Dallas]

Looks like the Doll's Head cutout has been filled in on that gun, Was that standard?

[Dean Romig]

Other examples we have seen were done the same way. Are there any examples of frames that were never mortised (stamped/cut) for the doll's head?

[Jeff Kuss]

The only ones I have seen have been filled in. The higher grade ones are engraved over and are harder to see.

[Dean Romig]

Now doggone it Jeff, you're holding out on us.... Please tell us about that one.

[Jeff Kuss]

97141 DH live bird gun on 2 frame. It has the full checked splinter forend.

[Dean Romig]

Nice!

[James Palmer]

32 inch V grade

[Bill Murphy]

On a graded gun with engraving covering the fill in, it should be easy to see the fill in from the breech face. I haven't looked at any of mine to search for the fill in. I'll get to that soon.

[Craig Larter]

James does your 32" VH have a safety?

[Bill Murphy]

James' gun doesn't seem to have an outline of a filled in area. The other one pictured with a fill in seems to have a screw in the doll's head. All very interesting.

[James Palmer]

No safety.

[James Palmer]

Can post more pics tomorrow.

2 Frame Hammerless VH with Straight Grip and 32 inch barrels. No safety.

Cool gun.

[Tom Hawkins]

Austin this gun is outside the top number of 26145 and is on the 4 frame. It has 30 in barrels with reverse chokes of F/M.

[ED J, MORGAN]

I have a DH with out the dolls head.

[Dean Romig]

We will find a whole lot of Parker hammer guns without the doll’s head rib extension but it us a rare thing to find a Parker hammerless without the doll’s head.




.

[ED J, MORGAN]

It is DH 104399 Shipped Sep 1909 to Dubuque, Iowa. Special order . No extended rib.