Chamber Pressure

[John Clement]

Hi, this is my first post here. I have a 1930 16 gauge VH that my Father gave me when I was 16. I say he gave it to me when I was 16, that was when he let me know that the gun was mine. He wisely waited about another 10 years to let me take full possession of it:)

Anyway, it is my most treasured firearm, as it was his, and I have just gotten back into more regular shooting and reloading. I have been catching up on all the changes in components that have taken place in the last 15 years as I gear back up for loading 16 gauge shells.

I have been reading a lot about the danger of higher chamber pressures in "vintage" shotguns. My gun is in beautiful condition, no rust or pitting, Vulcan steel barrels and a #1 frame. Is there any reason that I should be any more concerned about chamber pressure on the Parker than any of my other guns? I always use recipes from reliable sources, most of which run somewhere between 9000 and 11000.

Thanks

[Bruce Day]

TPS p. 515 has chamber pressure tables.

There are other sources for Parker recommended loads, which, as you have recognized by your question, are different , but related, to chamber pressure.

[Dave Suponski]

John, Most of us here keep our loads to 5,000 to 8,000 PSI A 1 frame 16 is a great gun but you have a gun with 80+ year old wood and there really is no need to punish the gun and your shoulder with hot loads. If it were my gun I would load accordingly. Also our friends at RST make some fantastic shells for vintage guns that will do anything you ask of them within reason. Check them out at RST.com

[John Clement]

Thanks. I didn't know any of this. I will get reading.

[Robert Rambler]

John, I can recommend joining the 16 Gauger Society, as well as their
"low pressure" group where you'll get tons of low pressure recipes.

http://www.16ga.com/

[John Clement]

OK, found RST. Just FYI it is rstshells.com. rst.com is the RAM stress test group. The Parker Story looks great, but a bit out of my price range. I had already found and enjoyed 16ga.com, but had not looked at the low pressure group.

Thanks again

[Harry Collins]

John,

I have a 16 VH on a #1 frame as well. I try to limit my shells to 1 oz at 1200 fps or less. I reload 7/8 oz at 1150 fps with the Down Range wad and International Clays powder. The pressure is 6200 psi and I shoot this load in a 16 gauge PH that has a set of Damascus barrels also. The PH was a 12 gauge on a #1 frame with Twist barrels that had been beat to death. I had a set of Damascus 16 gauge barrels that miraculously fit. Another fun Parker with 28" full choke barrels.

Harry

[Dave Suponski]

Harry, Could you post the full recipe for that load? I have been wanting to try some of the Downrange wads. Thank's!

[John Clement]

Thanks Harry, that helps a lot. What kind of hulls and primer? 1 Oz. Loads are exactly what I am looking for. I don't hunt much any more, just shoot targets.

I have started the process to try to get into the 16 ga.com low pressure group, but haven't had a response yet. Seems I need the secret handshake or something:) Thanks to all for the good info here.

Am I right in thinking that the only way to get The Parker Story is to purchase the books for $500 or more?

[Jeff Kuss]

I believe the Double Gun Journal is selling seconds for around $175 for the pair. I don't think anyone has found the reason they are seconds.

[Robert Rambler]

John, If you contact Russ Gray (RWG),and send him a one time $20 fee he'll get you set up on the low pressure group. I think $500 for the Parker Story is for the limited edition. Pretty sure I paid less then $300 for mine,have to watch and shop around. Others here can point you in the right direction I'am sure. :)

[Harry Collins]

WW Xpert Hull, WW 209 primer, 15.8 grains International, DR 16 wad, 7/8 oz shot yields 1150 fps at 6200 psi. You wouldn't believe the effectiveness of this load on clays and birds. I shoot 7 1/2 chilled shot at everything smaller than rabbit an duck.

Harry

[Dave Suponski]

Thank You Harry! Were do you find the Winchester hulls? I can't find them around here.

[Harry Collins]

Dave,

When I cleaned out Papa's house I found about 300 or so once fired empties he had been hoarding. You can still get WW Xpert 1 oz 2 1/2 dram loads at 1165 fps. A great load and expensive, but is a way to get empties.

Harry

[Dave Suponski]

Thanks Harry. I wonder with the Winchester being a straight walled hull if a Cheddite hull has about the same capacity.

[Robert Rambler]

Dave, Here's what I've been useing in my 16ga DH.
Cheddite Hull
Win 209
DR16 wad
16.3 gr Clays International
7/8 oz #8 lead
1175 fps 6700 psi

Nice load thats murder on clay targets.:)

[Dave Suponski]

Thanks Robert, Looking at Harry's and your load they seem very close. I think I will order some Down Range wads and some Cheddite hulls and give it a go. Thanks again!

[John Clement]

Dave,

When I cleaned out Papa's house I found about 300 or so once fired empties he had been hoarding. You can still get WW Xpert 1 oz 2 1/2 dram loads at 1165 fps. A great load and expensive, but is a way to get empties.

Harry

Ok, this brings up another question that I have. I am just starting to collect hulls for the 16 right now. I have a couple hundred old AA's that I will load several more times, but I need to build a supply of something more modern. I was starting to work on Remington game loads simply because I can get them locally, but I can just as easily get WW Xpert.

Here is the question though; if I buy factory loads on the WW Xperts, I only have one 16 gauge to empty them through. Can I shoot those the first time through the Parker? What kind of pressure am I looking at there?

Thanks again.

[Dave Suponski]

John, I don't know about factory pressures on the AA's maybe Harry can answer that for you. I reload the black Remingtons and at best I get 4/5 reloads before they are junk. I think the AA's will last a bit longer.

[John Clement]

And one more while I'm at it: I may go ahead and order some Cheddite hulls. They come primed with ch209 primers. I don't know how different they are from the Winchester 209, but does anyone have a 7/8 or 1 Oz recipe for that combo? I currently have the Claybusters WAA 16 wad, and the SP 16 wad, but will also be getting some DR 16's. I am making a trip to "the big city" in the next few days and plan to stock up on all the things I can't get here.

This info would help until I hear back from the low pressure group and get their data tables.

[John Clement]

John, I don't know about factory pressures on the AA's maybe Harry can answer that for you. I reload the black Remingtons and at best I get 4/5 reloads before they are junk. I think the AA's will last a bit longer.

The AA's I have are the old ones. They were great hulls, but I understand they no longer exist. I will find some loads and keep using those until they wear out, but I don't have very many of them. It seems that the Cheddites now have the reputation of lasting the longest, so I might as well just stock up on those.

I can't tell you all how much I appreciate the help. I am catching up on a lot of new information after about 15 years of little shooting and no reloading.

[Harry Collins]

John,

I would not worry about pressure in a VH. I do worry about recoil and how it might impact the old wood. In the Winchester reloading book they list this as a duplicate of factory 2 1/2 dram eq. promotional field load: WW 209 primer, 20.0 grains WSF, WAA16 wad, 1 oz shot, 1165 fps, 8400 psi.

Harry

[charlie cleveland]

harry that was good advise for the gun and a real decent load to boot...thanks charlie

[John Clement]

Dave, Here's what I've been useing in my 16ga DH.
Cheddite Hull
Win 209
DR16 wad
16.3 gr Clays International
7/8 oz #8 lead
1175 fps 6700 psi

Nice load thats murder on clay targets.:)

I ordered some Cheddite hulls from Precision Reloading. They come primed with Cheddite primers. Does anyone know how significant the difference is between the Cheddite and Win 209? I am wondering if I can use this same load for the first round, then I will be using Winchester primers after that.

[John Clement]

I ordered some Cheddite hulls from Precision Reloading. They come primed with Cheddite primers. Does anyone know how significant the difference is between the Cheddite and Win 209? I am wondering if I can use this same load for the first round, then I will be using Winchester primers after that.

I just realized that I already asked that a few days ago. Maybe no one knows. I will see what I can find.

[John Clement]

I just realized that I already asked that a few days ago. Maybe no one knows. I will see what I can find.

And to finish this one sided conversation, information on the low pressure group site says that win 209 and Cheddite 209 can be substituted for one another.

[Dave Suponski]

John, That is true. Pressures realized with both the Cheddite and Winchester primers are very similar.

[Dave Miles]

Dave, Here's what I've been useing in my 16ga DH.
Cheddite Hull
Win 209
DR16 wad
16.3 gr Clays International
7/8 oz #8 lead
1175 fps 6700 psi

Nice load thats murder on clay targets.:)

Is this Cheddite hulls 2-3/4" or 2-1/2"
Graff's is no longer carrying the SG-16 wad.
I have about 10,000 on hand, but will have to find something different some day.
Thanks, Dave

[Robert Rambler]

John C, I have done exactly that, loaded the new preprimed hull,then after first firing reloaded with Win 209's. Like Dave said performance between Win and Cheddite primers is very close.

[Robert Rambler]

Dave M, The data I have is for 2 3/4. I see data for 2 1/2 in. hulls using 3/4oz shot.
The DR is a tall wad. Depending on the bulkiness of the powder, 2 1/2 in. might work with a roll crimp?

[John Clement]

I have 2 3/4 hulls. I have 1000 DR16's on the way that are stuck in a snowstorm in the Midwest. The hulls arrived today. We are on our way to a city that has a Sportsmans warehouse, so I will be picking up a keg of International this weekend, and by next week I will be ready to load a few.

The data I see usually says Cheddite blue or green. These are red, but I assume they are the same. Precision said "Color may vary."

[Dave Miles]

I have 2 3/4 hulls. I have 1000 DR16's on the way that are stuck in a snowstorm in the Midwest. The hulls arrived today. We are on our way to a city that has a Sportsmans warehouse, so I will be picking up a keg of International this weekend, and by next week I will be ready to load a few.

The data I see usually says Cheddite blue or green. These are red, but I assume they are the same. Precision said "Color may vary."

John,
Did you measure your new RED Cheddite hulls?
The red hulls I've seen are 2-1/2". Not saying yours aren't 2-3/4".

[John Clement]

Don't scare me like that Dave! I was in a big hurry when I ordered them, and see myself punching the wrong item on the iPad. Nope, they are 2 3/4. Nice looking hulls too. Coming back to this after so many years, I was surprised by the low quality of a lot of hulls. I used to just use the AA's and some Remington-Peters. These look like good hulls.

[Dave Miles]

John,
They are a great hull, I've loaded 1000's of the 2-1/2" hulls.
All my 2-1/2" are red, and the 2-3/4" are green.
I like it that way, for ease of recognition.
Thanks for checking and enjoy the pleasures of reloading.

[King Brown]

A few questions re primers and I picked up this on another site:

Hottest to coldest.

Federal 209A
Chedditte
Remington
CCI 209 M
Winchester
CCI standard

[John Clement]

Thanks, actually I was just headed out to set up the 16 gauge loader. I picked up the powder last weekend, and the wads arrived. I will work with the cheddite primers, then switch to Winchester since they are one thing that is readily available here.

I also found out that my Parker was "restored and restocked" by Larry DelGrego in the early '70's, making the wood just 40 years old.