goose loads

[calvin humburg]

Going snow goose hunting when they start north. Whats some favorite loads I got 7625 powder but intrested in all loads. Favorit lead subustute is??? I was thinkin 4 drams black 1 1/3oz 4 buck. ho ho ho. For a NH 10 with good barrels. best ch

[Mark Ouellette]

Calvin,

I use Sherman Bell's loading data for 4756 powder. 1 1/4 oz to 1 3/8 oz of Nice Shot #2's is plenty to knock down Canada Geese at 50+ yardes through my Parker 10 gauges. I also had success this year with 7625 in 12 gauge with 1 1/8 oz Nice Shot 2's.

If you do not have Mr Bell's data send me a PM with your email address and I'm forward a copy to you.

Mark

[Pete Lester]

Too many squib loads with the 4756 powder for my tastes. They always seem to happen at a real bad time too. 7625 provides much more reliable ignition. I concur, 1 3/8 oz loads of nice shot (I like BB's) out of a 10 will clock 'em real good out to 50+ yards.

[E Robert Fabian]

Not starting anything here but I've had no issues with the 4756 and also like the 1 1/4 - 1 3/8 of Nice Shot but with 4's they pattern very nice out of the ten.

[Mark Ouellette]

I have read on various forums that both 7625 and 4756 may have ignition problems in very cold weather. Never willing to accept this without conducting a controlled test I place half a dozen loads of each powder in the freezer for a week. I though that was plenty long enough :) I then grabbed the frozen shells, walked into the backyard and fired them. While I was not set up to measure pressure or velocity, I did not not detect any difference in recoil from the same loads that were not frozen.

My hypothesis to prove was that 7625 would produce less recoil (squib load) when frozen. My finding for my rather limited test was that loads with 7625 were not affected at kitchen freezer temperatures.

For what it is worth,
Mark

[Tom Roller]

I have been using Hevi Shot Classic doubles #5s and 6s for pheasant - non-tox is not required but a good idea. They are fine, but I really have trouble knocking the birds down hard. I hunt over a setter and only shoot pointed birds so I am limiting myself to shots within 30yds - I hate seeing a bird flinch in the air and coast.

I have not yet tried NICE shot nor have I tried Kent Tungsten-Matrix (the later of which they claim is fine for old guns but are the pressures okay?). For Phez I use 16s and 12s.

Should I go back to lead #6s?

Advice from you western pheasant experts would really be appreciated.

[Mark Ouellette]

Nice Shot at 1200 fps works great in my guns on ducks and geese.

I don't know how much pressure Kent TM loads develops. I do have a few cases of it that I use sparingly.

If your Parker will withstand the the SAMMI max pressure of 12,500 for a 12 gauge is a question of much debate and analysis. Barrel condition and wall thickness are big factors in determining how much pressure a Parker can endure. Then there is the rather old butt stock. It may crack under the recoil (different than pressure).

If you are going to use non-toxic one can load Nice Shot at low pressures cheaper than buying Kent TM.

[Pete Lester]

I fired 606 10ga 1 1/4 ounce lead this season at crows, 1 squib. I fired maybe 40 loads 1 3/8's Niceshot using 4756 2 memorable squibs when a goose was in play. Scott K. has had more issues with 4756 than I but it doesn't take too many of them in a hunting situation to want to avoid 4756. Sometimes the squibs go bang but you can feel it just wasn't all there. The one squib on a crow was memorable to me because it was soft, real soft but I knocked the crow down. All hulls involved have been Federal, for me primers were W-W per Sherman Bells recipes.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

TNR,

I've asked a lot of questions to folks who've been using the Hevi-Shot Classic stuff and have gotten a surprising number of negative responses. The worst was a friend who bought a pile of it to shoot out of a Model 11 20 gauge. Even with the rings on the light setting the shells didn't have enough oompah to work the action of the gun. This was the worst but I've heard the same thing you're saying from a lot of others, that they just don't seem to kill like you want a shell to. After running my little survey I've stuck with Kent TM and Federal TP, shame you can't buy the latter anymore.


Destry

[Richard Flanders]

I can assure you that IMR SR7625 does not perform well in 1100-1200fps 1oz 12ga handloads in AA hulls using WW209 primers in the cold if it's -10deg F or colder. Using hulls that have more than 3-4 reloads can make it worse. Upping the shot to 1-1/8oz would likely help. I have to be very cautious when shooting at -25F; I blow clear and look down the bbls every time, regardless of how the shots sounded. I have not participated in the annual -40F shoot up here but would use factory ammunition if I did and keep it inside a parka somehow, not on my belt in a normal carrier.

[David Hamilton]

SR7625 does not perform well in light loads. Variable ignition is common. It seems best in robust loadings. Squibs are as bad as not being able to get it up. Just miserable! David

[Dave Suponski]

I don't know...I have used SR7625 in all my 16 gauge reloads and never had a problem.In fact I shot them 3 years ago up in New Hamphire on New Years Day and it was 10 degrees. But I must admit I haven't shot them at temps. as low as Rich has.

[scott kittredge]

i have had about 3 out of a 100 that didn't go bang with 4756 way to many for me( sucks trying to cut a sapling to ram out the wad from barrel when birds are flying:cuss:), went to blue dot 38 grs with 1 1/4 or 1 3/8th oz shot all have gone off just wright :) so i just picked up a 5 lb. jug (75.00 = 15.00 a lb.)of it and it is all i will use with hunting loads.

[Dick Miller]

So far everyone has overlooked the fact that Calvin stated that he was going SNOW GOOSE hunting---the feathered version of a Sherman tank compared to Canada geese. Honestly, I don't think that he can safely stuff enough powder and shot into that NH 10 to consistently kill those armor-plated SOB's !
JMHO

[Destry L. Hoffard]

They die pretty easy if you can get them inside 50 yards, but therein lies the trouble.....


DLH

[Tom Roller]

Since I dont currently reload, and dont plan to take it up in the near future (though I probably will at some point), what is the best factory available pheasant load that is clearly safe for an average vintage double?

I second the complaints about the "classic doubles" shells - it has been a common sentiment that I shrugged off but I am not impressed by knockdown power. I shoot a lot and am fairly proficient...

[E Robert Fabian]

If I had a good 2 frame 12 I would try Winchester super X 1 1/4 5's or 6's or the Remington's... forget the name as I reload.
I did use the Super X's.. two boxes and they where deadly on crows
Shooting pheasant I've found requires you to take a shot at a going away bird never the best shot... fur or feather

[charlie cleveland]

this is my personal load... 10 ga federal hull winchester primer 35 grains alliant blue dot winchester steel wadding plastic daisey copper bbs thin top wadding....glued top wad or 6 fold crimp....forgot to add that was a 1 1/4 ounce of those daisy bbs....byem at wall mark...charlie this is for the short ten

[charlie cleveland]

this load will kill those geese if whithin 60 yards in a good choked gun.. charlie

[Richard Flanders]

Good for you Charlie! I've always wondered if the BB's were dense enough to use. Seems the newer ones aren't as much copper as the old ones. What are they made of these days?

As for temps and SR7625. I don't have any problems at all with 1oz loads down to -10deg; below that it's an issue. Even below +10 I don't sit my ammo box outside while I shoot. I have 25 at a time in a belt carrier; the rest is inside the car. I shoot pretty low P loads for target also; 1100fps/4700psi. If I shot a lot in the cold I'd raise the velocity and pressure to get a better burn. If you really want to see bad burn, use PB at -25deg. Barrels look like you've been shooting black powder. I always finish up all my cold wx shooting with 1-2 factory target loads through each bbl to clean out the 'soot'...

[charlie cleveland]

really dont know what there adding with the steel but a magnet will still pickem up...hey and walmart hasem most of the time...i like the copper plated ones best but like you said the silver ones are what yu see most....ive never shot in really cold weather with a shotgun bet its hard staying warm out there..when i was young had a chance to live in alasks but passed my chance up..dont even remember why i didnot go... charlie

[Richard Flanders]

I just went down into the cave and did some research on this.

diameter and weights
BB .1735" 5.4 grains
#2 steel .180" 6.1 grains

The BB is only 4% less diameter with 88% the weight of a #2 steel pellet. Corrected for diameter, the density of the BB is about 92% of that of the steel. I'd say that's not too bad Charlie and should kill just fine within some reasonable limit. Haunt the garage sales or wherever and find some old copper BB's for comparison. I'd bet they're heavier. The silvery ones I have here sure feel light.

[Fred Preston]

David, Tried SR7625, went back to the Phizer product; must be the light loads.

[calvin humburg]

Put that goose head in the shot pattern. Everything dies with one in the computer.

[charlie cleveland]

calvin you got them goose loads figured out yet...wont be long you will get to use them...ive got to get me some turkey loads ready... charlie

[charlie cleveland]

them geese are gonna stay in the south till you boys get all the snow shoveled off the lakes....i feel for all.. dont get to down.. load up those parkers and go to the back door and fire a few of those special loads.. stretch your imagination and turn those pop cans into geese or ducks or what ever...will give you a boost i gurantee it.... charlie

[Kurt Densmore]

So far everyone has overlooked the fact that Calvin stated that he was going SNOW GOOSE hunting---the feathered version of a Sherman tank compared to Canada geese. Honestly, I don't think that he can safely stuff enough powder and shot into that NH 10 to consistently kill those armor-plated SOB's !
JMHO

Compared to the Giant Race of Canada Geese we shoot in Michigan the snows are easy to knock down at long range. They don't have the heavy feather, thick breast fat, meat and breast plate and size of the 10-13lbs of honkers we knock down up here.

With that said, I have had problems knocking down Canada geese late season with Sherman Bells 1 1/8oz SR7625 (30grains) load. Through my chronograph the load is in the 1200 f/s range at 80-90 degrees F and drops down to about 1000-1100 f/s at 30 degrees F. It works great for sporting clays in the summer but doesn't have the velocity that is needed for long range shots at much of anything. Good luck getting very many shots at snows inside of 50 yards. You need to get a load of #2 to BB non toxic up to about 1200 f/s to make good kills on geese. I have loaded up a 12ga load that smacks them good but haven't had a chance to work on a heavier, faster, reliable 10ga load. The 12ga load I have had good luck with is in the Hodgdon manual. Federal gold metal hull, 1 1/4oz #2 bismuth, 31 grains Longshot, Win.209 primer, WAA12 wad (not the best option because the shot goes up and over the wad...I had the wads laying around and needed to use them up) at about 1300 f/s and 8000 psi....flat out knocks big early season canada geese at 60 yards. Recoil is mild out of a #1 frame 30" bbls Parker (I don't know the weight of the gun). Out of a super black eagle on a 60 degree F day I got 1340 f/s . I would love to use a pile of these shells on snows. Maybe next year I will make it back out there. Taking a season off this spring.

Kurt

[King Brown]

TNR, Kent Tungsten Matrix performs exceedingly well. Pressures are relatively low: 7500psi 2 1/2-inch 30 grams in 5 and 6; 6500 psi 2 1/2-inch 28 grams (one ounce) in 6,7 sizes.

[Theodore LeDurt]

Black Cloud #3 in 2 3/4", 1oz load have been very effective for me with geese and ducks over decoys.

[Fred Preston]

That's the load I use in my 26" skeet bored VH for jump shooting from the canoe. It's the gun I use for most of my grouse and woodcock work with 7&1/2 AAs. Works well on a close rising bird.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

That Black Cloud would be awful hard on a damascus steel Parker I'd imagine.

DLH

[Kurt Densmore]

That's the load I use in my 26" skeet bored VH for jump shooting from the canoe. It's the gun I use for most of my grouse and woodcock work with 7&1/2 AAs. Works well on a close rising bird.

Fred,
Have you patterned the black cloud through your skeet choke? Tighten it up much?

Cabelas has the stuff on sale if you need more: http://www.cabelas.com/shotgun-ammunition-federal-premium-black-cloud-8482-steel-box-1.shtml

[Fred Preston]

Yes and Yes. I don't get the spread I do with the AAs but the 30 yard center density is nearly the same. The gun has barrels sleeved by KirK Merrington choked skeet in/skeet out (sort of light IC/light Mod). Kirk advised me that steel was ok. The black Cloud wads are very stout, no shot could touch the bore. I believe the wad is desighned to "parachute" away from the shot as it leaves the muzzle. Advertised velocity is 1500 fps for the 1oz load; the pushback is sharper than the 1&1/8oz AA, but the gun is a #2 frame and handles quite nicely. I did get my stuff from the big box this last season.