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Rich Proa
01-23-2011, 08:33 PM
Hi,

I have on hold an 1887 grade 1 Parker hammer gun. The frame size is #1 and the bbl's are laminated steel. Was curious as to the chamber length (i.e. 2 1/2
2 7/8, 2 3/4 etc.) and what factory shells I can use to try it out. I do some shotshells reloading for 28g but not much as I mostly shoot trap and the 12g factory loads can be had relatively cheap in bulk. I will probably start reloading for this particular gun down the road. Any info is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

RiccO

Rich Anderson
01-24-2011, 10:35 AM
Take or send your gun to a competant gunsmith who knows about double guns not someone who specializes in 870's. If you don't know of such a smith tell us where you live and one can be recomended.

Have the chambers measured (there probably 2 1/2 or maybe 2 9/16), have the bore diameter checked to be sure it hasn't been honed, have the wall thickness measured. All this is in addition to makeing sure your gun is tight on face and the overall condition is safe.

Your gun is over 100 years old she deserves to be treated correctly.

Paul Harm
01-24-2011, 03:14 PM
Buy some Win. low pressue, low recoil shells. Or some RST or someone who makes low pressure shells for the old guns. I have never measured barrel thickness - just looked to make sure the sun wasn't shinning through any holes. If it looks good and you're useing low pressure shells, shoot it. Or you can go as Rich suggests and get it checked out. Paul

Dave Miles
01-24-2011, 03:23 PM
The barrels on this gun are laminated steel? Which I believe is the cheapest barrel Parker used, and the least likely to be safe now. I don't think anyone should recommend that you shoot it, without having it checked out by a gunsmith who knows these guns. Or at least a person with the proper gauges.
That's just my opinion, but it's your face and hands. :)

charlie cleveland
01-24-2011, 04:20 PM
was laminated steel cheaper than plain steel ...just wondering .. charlie

Dean Romig
01-24-2011, 05:48 PM
From the time Parker Bros. stopped using "Decarbonized Steel" all of the barrel steels they used were composite, meaning Plain Twist, Stub Twist, Twist, Laminated Steel, the various grades of Damascus Steel, Bernard Steel and the first fluid-pressed steel Parker Bros used was Vulcan Steel on the VH guns I believe in the late 1880's.
I don't remember which was cheapest of the composite steels but it was certainly one of the 'Twist' steels.

Dave Suponski
01-24-2011, 06:04 PM
Dean, I will have to check on this but i believe that Titanic predates Vulcan by a little bit.

Dean Romig
01-24-2011, 06:08 PM
Yes, check it out - I know Titanic Steel was introduced in 1897 but I'm not cretain when Vulcan Steel was introduced. I may be totally wrong about the introduction of Vulcan - I may be confusing that with the introduction of hammerless guns.

Dave Suponski
01-24-2011, 06:29 PM
Vulcan Steel was first offered in the 1899 catalog with the introduction of the Vulcan grade gun with black barrels.

Dean Romig
01-24-2011, 06:34 PM
Thanks Dave. I stand corrected - Titanic came before Vulcan.

Paul Harm
01-24-2011, 06:56 PM
I could be wrong, but I believe laminate barrels were as strong as pattern barrels. Stub twist and twist were thought to be the weakest. If the barrels aren't pitted bad, there's no reason they're not as strong as when new. Many people are afraid of damascus barrel guns, but the Britts have been shooting them all along. Then again, that just makes it better for us who like to shoot em. There's nine damascus barrel SxS's in my gun room that have never been miced and get shot all the time. Paul

Carl Brandt
01-24-2011, 07:36 PM
Laminated was an upcharge from twist steel.

charlie cleveland
01-24-2011, 08:14 PM
the parker brothers ten ga i have is marked PLAIN STEEL...IT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE DAMASCUS OR TWIST STEEL...it looks like modern steel as far as just looks go..dont believe its ever been fooled wiuth....charlie

Dave Suponski
01-24-2011, 08:19 PM
Charlie, The plain steel and decarbonized steel guns were some of the earliest Parker barrels. We know that the decarbonized barrels were made from bored out musket barrels and these two types of barrel steel are generally not considered safe to shoot.

Rich Proa
01-24-2011, 08:51 PM
I could see the "pattern" on the outside of the bbl and there seems to be no rust or pitting whatsoever. The bores where bright with no sign of pitting. A few streaks which look like residue from wad and some dust from being on display. I was told the original owner shot clays with this gun! Mentioned he used 2 1/2" shells but I'd like to confirm that with a visit to a gunsmith.

scott kittredge
01-25-2011, 08:21 PM
Thanks Dave. I stand corrected - Titanic came before Vulcan.

or are they the same with differnt rib stamp?? :shock:

Dean Romig
01-25-2011, 09:29 PM
Scott, the jury's still out on that question and may be forever. No valid evidence has ever surfaced to prove or disprove that theory despite its possible merit.

Dave Suponski
01-25-2011, 10:52 PM
Lord knows I tried...Haven't given up yet though.

Paul Harm
01-26-2011, 12:12 PM
Weren't the early back action guns from musket barrels ? Remington coined the term decarbonized barrels when they went to making barrels from a 2" round by 9" long one piece of steel with a 3/4" hole. It was rolled out to a barrel with no welded seam. I believe Parker may have used them for a short period of time. Remington was known for making rifle barrels for anyone all over the world. They were the ones who figgered out how to make barrels without welding them togeather along the entire length. When they went to making shotguns they advertized their barrels as being able to bend back over double without breaking. I had a 1873 Remington hammer lifter with decarbonized barrels that I shot all the time. I would have no second thoughts about shooting one again. Paul

Dave Suponski
01-26-2011, 01:47 PM
Paul, I the early days during the "Chas Parker Makers" guns decarbonized and plain steel barrels were used on backaction and front action guns. I have always had a suspicion that the decarbonized barrels could have been sourced from Remington.

Drew Hause
01-26-2011, 06:54 PM
"Decarbonized Steel" is "Bessemer process homogenous wrought iron" and was sourced from Remington Arms. Pages 503 & 504 of The Parker Story state that Parker changed the name to "Plain Steel" as Remington was using the name "Decarbonized" on their newly introduced double gun.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/19406549/295122617.jpg

1869 Price List

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/19406549/325553101.jpg

"Best Gun Iron" were the musket barrels used on "Charles Parker Makers" guns

1866 Price List

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/19406549/325553103.jpg

This question comes up frequently and maybe could be added to the FAQs?

Dave Suponski
01-26-2011, 07:20 PM
Thanks Drew! I seem to always get these confused. Homogeneous Wrought Iron....I think I would still think real hard about shooting these old barrels though.