12 ga 3 inch

[charlie cleveland]

does any body know when the 3 inch magnum shell first come out...i know the first load was with 1 3/8 ounce load. then the 1 5/8 ounce then the 1 7/8 and then a few 2 ounce were loaded...does any body out there know about what years these came about..just wondering...... charlie

[Forrest Grilley]

does any body know when the 3 inch magnum shell first come out...i know the first load was with 1 3/8 ounce load. then the 1 5/8 ounce then the 1 7/8 and then a few 2 ounce were loaded...does any body out there know about what years these came about..just wondering...... charlie

I just finished reading "The Gun and it's Development" by Greener. He discusses 12 gauge guns being chambered in 3" in the chapters relating to pigeon and waterfowl shooting. This would have been around 1900. This book is a very interesting read, it is filled with self promotion by Greener, but does include a wealth of information lost to most modern sportsmen.

As far as the 3" 12 gauge load, Greener does not hold it in high regard. He states that it is prone to being overloaded which will cause the pattern to suffer, which is what can happen today with the heavy loads in 3" and 3 1/2" 12 gauge. Everything else being equal a heavy load will usually pattern better in the next larger gauge, such as a 1 1/2 oz. load in a 12 vs. 10 gauge.

Not sure when the extra heavy loads (over 1 1/2 oz.) came about in the 3" 12, my guess would be they are fairly new loads (last 40 years), but I'm sure someone else here is far more knowledgeable about this topic.

[charlie cleveland]

the lc smith gun collectors said that the lc smith long range was first made in 1923....i assume by this there must have been shells for gun.... charlie

[Forrest Grilley]

the lc smith gun collectors said that the lc smith long range was first made in 1923....i assume by this there must have been shells for gun.... charlie

Very true. From everything I can glean, 3" chambering in a 12 gauge was done prior to 1900. The interesting part of this discussion is when the extra heavy loads of more than 1 1/2 oz (and the guns to shoot them) started coming into existence. 2 oz. of shot in a 12 gauge is a very heavy load, even today. It is a heavy load in a 10 gauge as well, or at least it was during the blackpowder era. The L.C. Smith Long Range is an interesting gun, I wonder what loads the factory advertised it could handle? Maybe it was the first "Magnum" as we think of them today i.e. big shells + big payloads. Fascinating topic.

[charlie cleveland]

yes it would be interesting to know what the gun companys said were safe for their guns.....why make a gun in 3 inch chambers and only shoot lite loads in it.....i guess im a glutton for punishment but i like 3 in. 3 1/2 inch guns and big payloads.... charlie

[Mark Ouellette]

Gentlemen,

In the Pigeon Ring era one could purchase commercial loads for a 12 bore of up to, if memory serves me correct, 3 and a half inches. The extra length was for additional wadding, NOT additional shot. The additional wadding served to soften the blow from the wad onto the shot. This produced LESS deformed shot and subsequently better patterns.

The modern 3" magnum was introduced as the Super X Winchester. The Suer X 3" was made for/in conjunction with the Super Fox HE. I think they were both introduced in 1923. I might be a year late on that... How about one of you guys Google it an let us know?

Mark

[charlie cleveland]

what about the heavy duck model 12 winchester 3 inch gun....any body know what year it went into production.....charlie

[Pete Kappes]

I think 1935. Pete

[charlie cleveland]

seems like lc smith and fox were first to come out with modern 3 inch gunc to shoot the 3 inch magnum as we know it today....i wonder when did parker make ther 3 inch gun to shoot heavy loads....charlie

[Mark Ouellette]

NEGATIVE Charlie,

"The modern 3" magnum was introduced as the Super X Winchester. The Super X 3" was made for/in conjunction with the Super Fox HE."

The Super Fox was FIRST! The LC Smith Long Range Wildfowl gun was introduced as competition to the Super Fox.

Nothing against the LC Long Range as I own two of them but the Fox led the way!

Mark

[charlie cleveland]

thanks mark... i like the looks of the long range guns and what a name super fox...some thing almost magical about those names.... charlie