Fun with Twenties

[Bill Murphy]

Yesterday, Kevin McCormack and I were at our favorite gun club and coincidentally ended up on the same trap squad. I was shooting my rare and unusual 34" 20 gauge Parker SC. Imagine my surprise when I looked down the line and saw Kevin shooting his rare and unusual 32" 20 gauge Fox AE. To get to the point, Kevin and I were crushing way more birds than our companion shooters, all shooting 12 gauge guns. Kevin and I are normally sporting clays shooters, but I can't wait until our next chance to shoot some trap.

[Brian Dudley]

Bill, are the few 20g sbts on the same frame as the 12g guns? Or did they make a special frame for the 20s?

[charlie cleveland]

bill that is a rare single barrel 20 ga...i ve been looking for a 20 with 32 inch barrels a long time but aint found one...good shooting to you and kevin....charlie

[Bill Murphy]

Brian, it is great to hear you ask a question. You are so full of knowledge and usually have the "answer". OK, here goes. The 20 gauge Parker single, five of them, are all made on 12 gauge frames with massive chamber walls. I have actually found a 12 gauge barrel for my favorite 20 gauge single. The serial number is very close and it needs just a bit of fitting and a thicker bolt plate. The situation that exists is that the period where singles were made, there are a bunch of missing stock books, and a few order books. Order books were discontinued shortly after the single trap was introduced. There may be more than five of them out there, but I don't know who could have them. I know of three, one owned by a collector friend, and the other two are missing, I think. The missing may be more than two. One of the twenties has an extra 12 gauge barrel fitted to it, factory original. Some twenties could have scrapped barrels and been fitted with twelve gauge barrels years ago. Colonel Cutts seems to have had a twenty gauge single made to test his compensator, which wouldn't make most Parker collectors happy. Thanks for being interested in these great rare guns. By the way, I have been chasing my 34" 20 for decades, made a great friend who outbid me the first time the gun "came out". I had provided him with the provenance information, and he bid accordingly. Dick Baldwin gave me a letter from an early owner of the gun that provided that provenance. We shared many stories and dinners at the Southern, until he became ill and let the gun go to auction, again, where I was able to maintain my composure and outbid the competition. A couple of decades chasing this gun would provide a story similar to the story of the CH "Charleston Gun", a story I told on this forum.

[Garry L Gordon]

Do you gentlemen have any photos of those 20s that you could post? Probably the only way I'd get to see one.

[Bill Murphy]

Charlie, I have owned two 32" Parker 20s and a set of barrels for another. Sadly, I sold a 32" #2 frame 20 years ago and can't locate it. It is a VH serial number 153,333 and I want to buy it back.

[Daryl Corona]

True story. Last week I show up at our weekly Weds. sporting clays outing at a little club up in PA. with a 32" 20 ga. Sterlingworth. A nice gent walks over on the 2nd or 3rd. station and looks in my push cart and asks what I'm shooting. When I tell him and offer the gun for inspection he proclaims that there were no 32" 20 ga. Sterlingworths made and that they were probably Belgian barrels. I was in really good mood that day so I told him I did'nt know that. Thanks for telling me I guess I overpaid. He walked away thinking he just educated me. You just can't fix stupid. BTW; I ended up with high score out of 9 shooters besting the Benelli boys. Pretty good for Belgian barrels huh?

[Eric Eis]

True story. Last week I show up at our weekly Weds. sporting clays outing at a little club up in PA. with a 32" 20 ga. Sterlingworth. A nice gent walks over on the 2nd or 3rd. station and looks in my push cart and asks what I'm shooting. When I tell him and offer the gun for inspection he proclaims that there were no 32" 20 ga. Sterlingworths made and that they were probably Belgian barrels. I was in really good mood that day so I told him I did'nt know that. Thanks for telling me I guess I overpaid. He walked away thinking he just educated me. You just can't fix stupid. BTW; I ended up with high score out of 9 shooters besting the Benelli boys. Pretty good for Belgian barrels huh?

You coming South to shoot clays at Drakes with us at the end of April.

[Bill Murphy]

I would come to Drake's for a couple of days if the Southern wasn't being held at the same time. Of course, the shooters should provide a gun show with guns for sale.

[Brian Dudley]

Thanks bill. I assumed that was the case since so few were made that I could not see them making a different frame for them. And a trap shooter would want a substantial feeling gun anyway.
But, I have never seen any of the 20s, though I knew some were made.

[Daryl Corona]

You coming South to shoot clays at Drakes with us at the end of April.

Yep, if Drake is open I'll be there. As a sidebar; if anyone else would like to make a long weekend of it shooting at Drake and other venues don't let this stupid virus crap stop you.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Daryl, you maintained good composure there.
I went to a gun show this weekend, where a dealer had a Remington hammer 12 for sale with a big sign that said "this is not Damascus". Well, it sure as hell had a nice Damascus pattern, not a bad gun. When I told him it was Damascus he became quite incensed and told me to look down the bores and I wouldn't see any Damascus pattern there. I laughed at him when he told me that the Damascus pattern was only on the outside. I had to walk away.

[John Davis]

I too would like to see pictures of the 20 ga. Parker SBT.

[Tom Wyraz]

Hey Bill, great thread! Sounds like you & Kev had a hoot with your 20s. Maybe one day we can get together & I can bring my rare & unusual AH Fox 20ga Trap Grade SxS. (we think there were 3 made) It's a 28" gun. Or perhaps I'd use my 20ga HE 32" or my Fox Sterlingworth Skeet & Upland Game 20ga which is choked Full & Fuller... 26" gun. That gun never left the Utica area and was purportedly owned by a member of the Savage/Fox Trap team (Dad & I bought it from the 2nd owner about 40 yrs ago) ... never found any press on a Savage/Fox Trap Team though I have found articles on other factory teams in that era. Interestingly, I have never fired a round out of any of the 3 guns.
Disappointed like heck we all wont be in B'more this weekend, I had that big beautiful 32" Colt to show you.
PULL !!!

[Phil Yearout]

Daryl, that guy needs to read my tag line :rotf:!

A guy in a well respected gun shop told me that Parkers are made in England and when I asked him if he knew if the 27-1/2" barrel had been cut he said, "Well, they use millimeters over there, so it's hard to tell." :shock:

[Jeff Kuss]

A good salesman just has to make up a good story! Buyer beware.

[Brian Dudley]

I too would like to see pictures of the 20 ga. Parker SBT.

John, don't know know by now that Bill does not post pictures of his guns?

[Phil Yearout]

A good salesman just has to make up a good story! Buyer beware.

I hear you Jeff; sadly, that's a lot of people's perception of a salesman. But as a guy who has spent many years in sales, I'd have to disagree. A BAD salesman is the one who has to make up stories or try to BS his way through questions he doesn't know the answer to. Good salesmen understand that they'll make a lot more sales telling the truth, and there's not a thing in the world wrong with saying, "I don't know, but I'll find out."

I always operate under the premise that my job is to find out if the buyer has a need (or a want!), and then my attitude is, "If my offering fits that need (or want), then let's see if we can come to terms."

Unfortunately, the guy in the shop was neither a good salesman nor a knowledgeable one. Sorry for the mini-rant here, but I've spent a lot of years trying to overcome the stereotype of "a salesman" :)!

[John Davis]

Don't get me wrong, I think a 20 gauge SBT is really cool and very rare, but I have to wonder why they ever made one to begin with.

[Daryl Corona]

Don't get me wrong, I think a 20 gauge SBT is really cool and very rare, but I have to wonder why they ever made one to begin with.

They made one because someone ordered it that way. If you or I were around back then John we would have been able to do just that; order what we want.

[John Davis]

No doubt. But the question remains. Why would a trap shooter back in the day want one any more than a trap shooter would want one ( for practical reasons) today?

[Bill Murphy]

Back in the day, just like today, trapshooting was and is not all competition for money or prizes. I have researched a bunch of trap guns whose owners don't show up in Interstate Association, American Trapshooting Association, or Amateur Trapshooting Association records, or show 100 birds and none afterward. Many shooters in the very early days of competitive trap and flyer events, many shooters used twelve gauge guns when tens were legal.

[John Davis]

Agreed. Kimble was a 10 gauge guy, only once they banned his choke bored 6 gauge muzzle loader. And Carver was a 12 bore gentleman, when 10's ruled the day. But, there's a pretty big difference between a 10 Vs 12 and a 12 Vs 20. Today the Parker 20 gauge SBT is a rare and valuable find that any Parker collector worth his salt would die to have as a part of their collection. But back in the day, it was an expensive novelty. So, who was the guy who first owned her? He had to be a fascinating character. As is her present owner :)

[John Davis]

As an afterthought. I wonder what Dr. Truitt's scores are 10 ga. Vs 12 ga.?

[Dave Noreen]

A while back, Walter Snyder did an article in The Double Gun Journal on a 20-gauge Ithaca SBT made for the shooting school on the pier in Atlantic City. Could the Parker SBT 20s be for that too?

[Bill Murphy]

Funny you should ask, John. As you know, I never let a trap gun remain without provenance. One of my twenties was ordered by William Coleman Bristol, in 1917. He was the U.S. District Attorney for Portland, Oregon. It is described in an article in the Winter 2016 Parker Pages by my friend, Frank Halsey, who owned it before me. I discovered the gun in a letter from another owner addressed to Dick Baldwin at Remington, inquiring about its history. Dick or his daughter gifted me a file of letters that were written to Remington over the years by Parker owners. I discussed the gun with Frank at a Southern Side by Side over dinner after it appeared in an auction catalog. He outbid me at that auction, but later consigned it to Julia's Auction when he became ill. I had the full file of correspondence and provenance for some years, and gifted it to Frank after he bought the gun. Frank was a serious trap gun collector.
My second twenty was discovered on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, being shot in ATA competition by H. Earle Cooper from Chestertown. He is presumed to be using the second barrel, a twelve gauge 32" barrel numbered to the gun. The 234,000 series gun is too late for order book entry, but is assumed to have been ordered by Marine Corps Colonel R.M. Cutts, because it has a Cutts Compensator mounted. Colonel Cutts spent a lot of time in the Maryland, D.C. area and is mentioned in Parker order books pre-1934. He was apparently experimenting with his compensator on the 20 gauge barrel. One order book entry mentions Colonel Cutts ordering a 26" single trap if I recall correctly. The short barrel was for the installation of one of his compensators. He also ordered Ithaca trap guns to experiment with his compensator. At least part of his son's estate was sold in Maryland in the 1970s at Sloan's Auction in my home town, Rockville, MD. His son, R.M. Cutts lll, was a Marine Corps Brigadier General. Unfortunately, I never saw any gun related items at the auction house. However, when I was in my teens, I saw a Cutts equipped Ithaca Knick in the front window of Tendler's Sales, a D.C. pawn shop. It was a throwaway gun, priced at about $125. This was probably one of the Ithacas mentioned by Walt Snyder

[Bill Murphy]

Researcher, neither of my 20 gauge traps have any connection with the Dupont Shooting School. A fellow you and I know owns a third 20 gauge Parker single trap and I know nothing about the history of his gun. I don't know who owns #4 and #5.

[Jeff Christie]

Bill— When I was a kid in Camp Springs MD in the Fifty’s a friend of mine and I would skip school (Surratsville JS High School) and ride the bus into the District and go to Griffith Stadium and watch the Senators lose another game. It was mandatory that we stop at Tendlers (9th and E?). I found a great P08 there that I had my father buy. I still have it. Great place. He bought a Lefever trap gun there as well.

[Dean Romig]

Researcher, neither of my 20 gauge traps have any connection with the Dupont Shooting School. A fellow you and I know owns a third 20 gauge Parker single trap and I know nothing about the history of his gun. I don't know who owns #4 and #5.


Wasn't a certain (1 of 1) 18 gauge Parker associated with the Dupont Shooting School ?






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[Bill Murphy]

I remember the article on the 18 gauge, but I don't remember what connection it had.

[Bill Murphy]

Jeff, Tendler's Sales, 913 D Street Northwest, now under the FBI building. Griffith Stadium was a bus ride from Rockville to the District line, then a short trolley ride down Georgia Avenue to the stadium. The whole trip was about 35 cents in the fifties. Most of the time, I would go to the stadium with my dad, but occasionally, I would bus it and meet him there.

[Dean Romig]

All I really know is that after all the shooting that had been done with it, all that remained of all the ammo that was made especially for the gun with special head stamps was one original box of 25 with the exception that when the gun was offered to me one of those original shells had been removed and replaced with a 20 gauge shell. It was a DHE and no I didn’t buy it.... the price wasn’t realistic for a gun with a lot of wear and nowhere to buy ammo for it.





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[Bill Murphy]

Where is it today, Dean? DGJ issue?

[Dean Romig]

I honestly don’t know where the gun is today and I don’t know which issue the article appeared in.





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[Jeff Christie]

Bill— thanks for the fun reply. Tendlers was an amazing place. As I remember we rode in on DC Transit buses (yellow and green?) to Constitution (and 9th?) and catch a trolley to the Ball Park. I usually met my father at home after the school had called him. Youth was wonderful. Jeff

[Larry Stauch]

Where is it today, Dean? DGJ issue?

PM sent

[Dave Noreen]

All I really know is that after all the shooting that had been done with it, all that remained of all the ammo that was made especially for the gun with special head stamps was one original box of 25 with the exception that when the gun was offered to me one of those original shells had been removed and replaced with a 20 gauge shell. It was a DHE and no I didn’t buy it.... the price wasn’t realistic for a gun with a lot of wear and nowhere to buy ammo for it.


The article was by Keith Kearcher in The Double Gun Journal, Volume Four, Issue 3, pages 127 to 130. The run of 18-gauge ammo from Union Metallic Cartridge Co. was made for John M. Browning, circa 1905. Apparently he was experimenting with a lighter weight version of his autoloading shotgun. Nothing came of it. Half way through the production run of shells the 18-gauge "Bunter" (head stamp) broke and the run was finished with a 20-gauge stamp. So, pink UMC NITRO CLUB 18-gauge shells exist both with the No. 18 and the No. 20 head stamps. Major Howard Mills, manager of a duck club on the south side of Great Salt Lake made a deal with JMB for the supply of shells and in 1908 had the Brothers P make a gun for them on an 0-frame.

[Dean Romig]

Right Dave. That was the gun that was offered to me at something like $17 or $18k. I passed... I didn’t have the need or use for such a gun and wasn’t into collecting one-of guns. I have no idea where it went after I said “No thank you.”





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[charlie cleveland]

I have seen some of those 18 ga shells with the 20 ga head stamp on them...I have a 18 ga stamped shell it is still loaded...dean I would have passed too.....charlie

[Bill Murphy]

Fun with twenties continues today when I appeared at the local Izaak Walton range with my second SC single barrel twenty gauge for test fire. I patterned the Colonel Cutts twenty on a pattern sheet and was impressed with the 7/8 ounce pattern of #9 at about 25 or 30 yards. A bumble bee would be hard pressed to escape. At some time in the future, I will load some serious 1 ounce #7 1/2 loads and get some real patterns at 40 yards. The Cutts twenty gauge single is only a 30" gun, but much fun to shoot.

[Bill Murphy]

Not much interest in my second twenty gauge SC trap. Funny that Clarence called me to ask about it. He owns one of the twenties and wants to buy more. There are two more under the radar. Where are they? I love my two, even though one is a Colonel Cutts sleeve gun. It's still a 20 and has an extra twelve gauge barrel. The Cutts barrel shoots a killer full choke pattern.

[Dean Romig]

Careful Bill, he’ll want to TRADE you something for it...





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[Harry Collins]

A few years after the the break up from Du Pont.

[todd allen]

True story. Last week I show up at our weekly Weds. sporting clays outing at a little club up in PA. with a 32" 20 ga. Sterlingworth. A nice gent walks over on the 2nd or 3rd. station and looks in my push cart and asks what I'm shooting. When I tell him and offer the gun for inspection he proclaims that there were no 32" 20 ga. Sterlingworths made and that they were probably Belgian barrels. I was in really good mood that day so I told him I did'nt know that. Thanks for telling me I guess I overpaid. He walked away thinking he just educated me. You just can't fix stupid. BTW; I ended up with high score out of 9 shooters besting the Benelli boys. Pretty good for Belgian barrels huh?

Sometimes success is the best revenge.