16ga Three Frame?

[Pete Lester]

According to the seller this VH 16ga is on a three frame. I have not seen a picture of the barrel lug. Could be an optical illusion but the barrel walls look pretty stout. Not sure if he still has it for sale.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=131911730

[Don Kaas]

Well, if it's not a 3 frame (fairly rare in VH grade) it is certainly a #2 frame. My (and Destry's) kind of gun. It is a pity about the short barrels and the remaining open chokes as they defeat the purpose of a small bore waterfowler. I once bought a GH 16g 30" on a #3 frame but returned it as it had a few too many issues. My 32" 8lb #2 frame 3" 20 gauge will have to suffice. I picked up my #1 frame 32" .025/.025 choked 16 gauge VHE just yesterday at the stockers. At 7 1/4 lbs even, I look forward to taking it to Quebec at the end of September and whacking a few ducks with it

[Bill Murphy]

Yes, it is a #3 frame 16, with 28" original Vulcan Steel barrels. I'm sure we all thought they had been cut. I don't know how it was originally choked, but today it has original .665 bores, cylinder in the right barrel and .005 in the left. I doubt that it left the factory that way. I have procrastinated sending for a letter because I want to order several and am getting the information together for Mark. The gun is listed in the stock book at 8 pounds, 13 ounces, and the actual weight is 8 pounds, 8 ounces. I shot a round of skeet with it today and it is a horse. No recoil at all with one ounce game loads. I will report back when I get order book information. One thing we know is that the gun was special ordered with "figured wood", an unusual spec for a VH grade. It is about the whitest Parker I have ever seen, extreme field wear on every surface, but not a sign of any dents, deep scratches, or abuse, and totally original with great screws.

[Pete Lester]

Bill did you check the chamber length? Were there any 3 inch 16ga shells floating around at the turn of the century? Was this built as part of a multi barrel set by any chance?

[Bruce Day]

And what would be the purpose of a small bore, heavy waterfowler where a shooter pounds away with 12ga loads through a 3 inch 20 or 16? Why not just use a 12?

I can understand a 20 or 16 for teal or close in, wings cupped ducks, but that would be using a standard load for the ga.

[Bill Murphy]

This gun has no purpose other than ammunition testing. When I get the letter from Mark, I will let you know. I have seen other guns sold by Parker Brothers to ammunition companies, probably for testing their products. The chambers are not long. They measure between 2 1/2 and 2 3/4. I bought the gun because it was an odd bird. I have a house full of them. I'm looking for more. By the way, Bruce, what's a 12?

[Dave Noreen]

A hundred years ago the standard American 16-gauge paper shell was 2 9/16 inches. But, you could get 2 3/4, 2 7/8, and 3-inch 16-gauge shells. Just had to order a thousand. From the factories in those days the long shells didn't carry a heavier payload, just more and better wadding. From my readings I'm sure many an old Nimrod hand loaded his long shells a lot hotter then the factories did.

[Pete Lester]

Glad it found a home where it will be researched.

Ammunition testing gun, neat, I hope the records will provide some info on that, but if a test gun why the request for "highly figured wood?"

I wonder how many 3 frame 16's were built...... one or two?

[Bill Murphy]

Pete, thanks for bringing the gun to our attention. It had been on GB for several rounds without a bid and I had never looked at it. The seller would not sell it to someone without going through another week of no bids, so I bought it out of his store. They were very nice and astounded that I would want such a worn gun. However, I'm happy with it as long as I'm not forced to carry it in the field.

[Don Kaas]

Good for you, old buddy. If the barrels had been 30-32" with choke I would have gone after it. Someone on Gunbroker is selling 16 ga "magnum" loads with 1 3/8 oz of shot...just the ticket for this one or have the chambers bore out to 10 gauge and have a Parker version of the 12/20....the Meriden 10/16.... BTW, Bill, I broke down on Saturday called Larry A. and did a nice deal on the Westley Richards early A&D 36" 8 bore in its original case...

[Bill Murphy]

If you're really sure about the Westley, OK, but if you just want to be able to look at it occasionally, let me know and I'll take over for you. Let me know.

[Bill Murphy]

I got the order information on the #3 frame 16 from Mark yesterday. Apparently, it was not ordered for any particular purpose like ammunition testing. It was ordered by W.G. Dunn in Madison, Wisconsin, April 27, 1906. It was specified at 8 1/2 pounds to 8 pounds 10 ounces and actually weighs 8 1/2. Target specified was 200, so the chokes have been opened. The "2 1/2" frame was specified, which is a #3 frame. Also specified was grip size and a "#1 stock". I have seen a few guns with stocks of a different size than the frame, but I have not seen an order that specified it. It's hard to figure out why the buyer would want an 8 1/2 pound 16 gauge but with a small stock. The buttplate is, sure enough, a #1 buttplate. Light trigger pull and figured stock were also specified. There was no charge for any of the special order items.

[Don Kaas]

Neat gun, Bill. Send it to Mike Orlen for soldered in tubes to restore the chokes...or shoot skeet with it!:rotf:

[Dave Suponski]

Bill,Very interesting gun.Could you bring it to Pintail so I may see it?

[Bill Murphy]

Dave, it will be the whitest gun in the 16 gauge display.

[Dave Suponski]

Thanks Bill...I look forward to seeing it. Can I shoot it in the 16ga. event?:eek: I think I am going to bring the orphan 16ga. PH for the dinner.

[Bill Murphy]

I'm sure we are going to see some over the top sixteens, including my GHE Damascus three barrel set. It's not quite as ugly as the VH three frame.