Don't Always Shoot the Snake!!

[Mark Ray]

Tragic evening on this Monday. We were having an early season quail expedition at a friends deep South Texas ranch. We had put up a really nice covey, and three shooters took four birds on the rise. Really thick "cactus-ey" , cover. The handler let out two labs and three English cockers, in addition to the two pointers that were on the ground. The horde of dogs were with myself and the property owner looking for our three birds, when the third shooter, who was about 80 yards to our right, fired a shot. The retrievers, (the cockers and labs) hauled ass over there to get what they thought was a freshly shot bird, and surrounded the other hunter. He had killed one little rattlesnake, and was in the process of reloading to shoot the other two there with the first one, when the dogs surrounded him. It was really hot, and windy, and the dogs in their excitement did not scent the snakes. Cookie, our hosts 15 lb cocker took a strike in the ribcage, and was dead within 30 minutes, even with antivenin being administered within 5 minutes and a shot of dex, and a good icing down. Cookie was 11, and an incredible dog, with well over 2000 retrieves. She was also the dog that went home with our host to his family every trip out.

Moral of the story, after 40 plus years of handling dogs ,and hunting wild quail, both our host and myself made the mistake of assuming the third shooter knew what to do in that situation. We did not do the perfunctory "rules talk" prior to setting out.

When you encounter a poisonous snake, particularly when retrieving dogs are on the ground, yell SNAKE!!! so the dog handler, and the other shooters, know what the situation is, and make every effort to keep yourself between the dogs and the snake, until the dogs are either kenneled, or at least have hands in their collars, before shooting the offending reptile. Retrievers in particular are going to go to a gunshot. In this case the hunter did kill the little snake he was shooting at, but there were two more there, and he knew it. In the case of a big single snake, unless you tear his head from his body with your shot, that snake is still VERY capable of delivering a lethal bite. I have seen rattlers with the last third of their length missing, make solid strikes on dogs and snake boots. I have also seen a dog pick up a snake head, cut from the snakes body, and take one in the mouth.

Sorry to get on my soapbox. This is the worst time of year for snakes down here, and a cool head in a tense situation can save a dogs life.


Me and Cookie from a hunt there a couple of years ago.

RIP Cookie

[Mills Morrison]

Sorry to hear the news. You can never be too safe and I never tire of the safety lecture before the hunt

[Brett Souder]

I completely agree. We had to shoot a Prairie Rattlesnake in South Dakota last week.
-Brett

[Dave Tatman]

What a tragic story, Mark, but thanks for sharing it. We can never be too safe or too cautious when we are in the field with our dogs and other hunters. Even if it is not snake country, there are all kinds of risks and basic safety rules that should be reviewed prior to a hunt.

Thanks for the reminder. The hearts of all of us dog lovers go out to your friend on the loss of Cookie.

Dave

[Daryl Corona]

That just put a knot in my stomach Mark. Really, really sorry to hear about Cookie.

[Robert Rambler]

Loss of a dog is always heart breaking. To lose one like that is horrible.
So sorry to hear such sad news.

[Sara LeFever]

So sorry to hear that! Thank you for sharing the details, I learned a lot, and hopefully it spreads the word to others.

RIP Cookie. :(

[charlie cleveland]

i too am sad about your loss....charlie

[Rich Anderson]

Losing a dog to any set of circumstances is tragic enough but to lose Cookie in this manner is horrifying to me. Never assume someone knows the rules.

I appreciate you sharing this experience and maybe by doing so Cookie has saved a dog or two.

[Mark Ray]

It is interesting that the “3rd hunter” is a guy that I have known for 25 years, and hunted quail many many times with at his place, and other ranches. At his place, we have never used dedicated retrievers on the quail truck. He always used guides that had retrieve broke pointing dogs, including every dog i ever trained and hunted with. I never had dedicated retrievers, just fetch broke Setters for 30 years, and the last 15 or 18 years, Vizslas. So he was not accustomed to the circus of having several other dogs down with the pointing dogs......

Which just further edifies the importance of defining the rules of the game for that day, and according to the wishes of either the host of the shoot, or the outfitter, if such is the case.

Shooter number 3 is beside himself with guilt, but the blame is not all his, it is our fault for not pointing thie practice out.

[Jim DiSpagno]

Mark, my sincere condolences to you and your friend and thanks for reminding all that read this post that verbally presenting all the rules prior to a hunt, especially over dogs is essential in preventing accidents. RIP Cookie

[Brett Hoop]

I appreciate the lesson.

[Todd Poer]

Mark that is awful. Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda is also part of the continuing agony but obviously bad things happen fast that are almost uncontrollable even if all precautions taken. There were probably a half dozen to a dozen different things that could have happened to prevent the tragedy in what is probably a 1 out of 100 bad encounters with a snake, and even then still might not have made a difference. Perfect storm, rotten luck or fickled finger of fate, no matter it just stinks.

Its why you and many wear snake boots in snake country for protection of yourself and to give you peace of mind so you can go and grab a dog and not worry about being bitten or shield a bite. Your right and your encounter proved it that this time of year if you see one there are others around as they tend to congregate some to den up. Its A good rule of thumb that if in deep South during hunting season even if its 45 degrees out or warmer air temp and especially if sun out slap on the protection. Ya know there are a good many that don't and odds are in their favor, but..... You did'nt mention it but were other members of party wearing snake protection. I know that your typical rule.

BTW its never the snake you see that concerns me. Your also very correct about if you have to kill a snake and leave it for dead to finish the job safely and make sure that business end is permanently out of action. I'm not 100% certain how long after death a reptiles muscles can contract but its a long time.

For me I try and personally let snakes alone most of the time they don't want nothing to do with you since we are not on the menu. Its easy to blame the snake but that is wrong as well. They just function and do what they do in their habitat. Supposedly we are the ones walking around with the big brain and along with that is supposed to be capacity of remorse, compassion and guilt.

[Mark Ray]

I am of the opinion that "their" habitat is ours as well. I do not go out of my way to encounter rattlesnakes in the field, but when I do, I will treat them with the same deliberateness that I would a stinging scorpion crossing my living room floor.

All other things being equal, the dog would not have been bitten if hunter three had not shot into the snakes while there were loose retrieving dogs on the ground. The pointers are all Whoa broke, and had they run in, we could have whoa'd them, and stopped them from running into the snakes, or could have used "Ready Kilowatt" to reinforce that idea.

Anyone that is not a thrill seeking moron, wears snake protection in warm weather down here, and most, including myself, wear gloves in addition.

All of our dogs are snake trained, and those that need it, get a little "reminder" walk prior to hunting season. Some dogs, once is enough for a lifetime. My Vizsla Hobbs got tagged on the end of his nose in our driveway about four years ago. He went out with me when I was going to turn a brisket on the smoker, and was running downwind to get to the grass for a little relief, and just ran nose to nose with the snake. Since then, he checks out everything visually as well as by nose! If there is an object that is significantly longer than wide on the ground, he carefully checks it out. In addition, we vaccinate all of our dogs with the crotalotoxin vaccine, in addition to carrying proper medical supplies on the truck....antivenin, dexamethasone epi pens etc., in addition to a medical stapler in case we need to help a dog that has a run in with a javalina.

Again...had hunter three yelled Snake!, the other four of us on the ground would have policed up the dogs, then dealt with the snake.

[Todd Poer]

Agonizing and unintended result for sure. Your threadline and follow up point clearly suggests the crux of the issue as being a cause. It is almost Shakespearean "To blast or not to blast". At one time in not to distant past I worked for a short time with a fella that had a PHD in medieval literature from University of Edinburgh. He was actually from Tullahoma Tennessee so go figure that connection. Hard to argue his point that is almost a cliche` but his common phrase was "Good thought, bad idea" Seems he developed this saying by studying and reading, obviously in great depth, historical documents, context and outcomes to come to that conclusion. History always has a lesson that constantly repeats and reinforces that the world is fraught with "Good thoughts and Bad ideas".

Obviously you and your friends had one of those moments, I am certain not even in your wildest thoughts did that potential outcome factor in as prepared as you were. That is a tough one. Thanks for sharing so we can learn or reinforce the thought and ideas of your experiences so as not to repeat. I can say this, and that is I have seen that combination or bird dog and retriever put into practice countless times but it was never mentioned what to do in case of a snake encounter. The standard thought is just leave em alone.

Peace be with you and your friends Mark as you work through it. Very tough time.

[Lee Sherfield]

Thank you for sharing this story ! It's very disheartening as a dog owner ,but who knows you may have just saved one of my dogs ! Since I live in the great white North, have never seen a poisonous snake in the field and have the dream to hunt some wild quail in the near future. Thank you from my pups and myself.

[Richard Flanders]

Thanks for the snake lesson. Could be this post will prevent other's dogs from being bitten down the road. I know I will certainly not forget the advice you have given.

[Todd Poer]

Yeah that was a bad episode for Mark and his group. What I know of Mark and read of the instance even when those guy were probably knowledgable, prepared (snake kits, equipment, protection) and years of experience there was a breakdown and or someone got caught up in the moment froze.

Rich you being a pilot and living in a tough unforgiving part of the country probably understand better than most the compounding issues when things go bad..... I;m sure you can relate. BTW What the heck do you do if your out bird hunting in Alaska and bump a grizzly bear or for that matter a moose. I guess if they are running your direction you hope you can out run your dogs. You get an adrenalized animal like that with their size and power coming for you, whew.

Told this before but once in Alaska had what turned out to be a Sow and cub approach from behind and when turned around was in stare down with her about 100 yards away. Clearly I was in her fishing spot unbeknownst by me. Thank god she lit out the other way. All I had was a fly rod. I might have been able to poke her in the eye if she charged.

[Richard Flanders]

Incidents like this, and most of any kind actually, are nearly always an accumulation of errors. Yours started with not laying out the rules of the road before stepping into the field, or even before stepping into the trucks and heading into the field. There's rarely a plane wreck that isn't based on an accumulation of at least 4 and often 5 errors and I always do my own analysis on writeups of just what the errors were in order. I've only run into one grizzly while hunting moose one fall. I came out onto the airstrip to take up my position and there was a grizzly sniffing the spot where I sat against a downed tree....and sometimes napped.... while waiting for a moose to walk by. I sat elsewhere that morning. I've never had an issue while bird hunting as I rarely hunt them in bear country when the bears are out. Snake issues aren't on the radar in Alaska as we don't have any, unless you hunt in downtown Anchorage where some escape from homes occasionally.