Good ol UPS

[calvin humburg]

Sent my barrels to Craig in this got to him all right when they came back this is what I got don't know how you could break pvc. UPS pretty much said beat sand. I'll bet whoever broke it voted for O bomb ba :cuss: ch5175

[Russ Jackson]

Good Lord ,They must have ran it over with the truck that was carrying it before they tossed it in the back ! :eek:

[calvin humburg]

At least the barrels were undamaged Craig had them rapped and packed tight in bubble rap. broke right by the fragile sign priceless. Thought they might refund shipping at least, wrong.

[Harry Collins]

WOW! Calvin, I would have had a heart attack. I have put 1X4's in cardboard boxes to ship barrels and ship mostly with USPS. My stocker is in the country and likes guns shipped UPS to save him a trip to town to the PO Box.

Now, how about some pictures of the barrels Graig did. I like the looks of his work.

Harry

[John Dunkle]

OMG..??!!!

That's amazing??! At first I thought it was a cardboard tube - but then noticed it was PVC...?? My jaw dropped.!!! :shock:

Wow.....

John

[Robert Rambler]

That's nuts!!! :shock: Looks more like vandalism then an accident to me!! :cuss:What did the barrels look like?? If the contents were damaged I'd be seeking legal advice.

[Dean Romig]

Guys.... As one who ships and receives on a daily basis I can tell you that when you pack something in an "indestructible" package like Calvin's PVC tube and mark it "Fragile" the gorillas at UPS and Fedex take that as a challenge and often go to lengths to damage it.
I use the same PVC tube but put it inside a corrugated carton with no "Fragile" labels or markings whatsoever. Never had a problem with this method.

[Robert Delk]

No way that was not done on purpose.I have run over the stuff with my van and not broke it when I was shipping bamboo rods and wanted something that could not be broken.

[Eric Eis]

I don't think it was a truck, that my friends is what a forklift will do to a package, small wheels, and a "whole lot of weight":cuss:

[Chris Travinski]

I once shipped a rifle packed in a pine box, when it came back the barrel was sticking out the end of the box! Dean is right, ship in a cardboard box with no stickers on it. P.S. Probably makes you think twice about fibbing about the insurance to save a few bucks.

[calvin humburg]

5273

5274Harry heres the barrels i've had this picture on a while back the thing that puzzles me is they didn't harm the barrels thank the Lord. ch

[Harry Collins]

Those are beautiful. Craig does A great job.

Harry

[Dean Romig]

Those barrels came out very nicely. There looks to be two different kinds of twist - could those have been made by Parker Bros. too?

[calvin humburg]

they are before and after pictures. i guess you mean not imported but made by parker. well honestly i guess i don't know what you mean and if its a question from you i sure won't know the answer.

[charlie cleveland]

really nice barrels calvin...sure is a lot of differance in the before and after....im glad your barrels were not damaged that would have been a tradegy.....thanks for the pictures.... charlie

[Jay Gardner]

The broken PVC tube is unbelievable! Seems like they would almost have to try to get it to break in order to do that much damage. You are a lucky man.

[John Mazza]

I have NOTHING good to say about UPS !

It's disgusting to think what these people are paid...

[Francis Morin]

I have shipped barrels to Buck Hamlin, and received them back after rechoking from him- I use Heavy Wall (think about schedule pipe- the thicker the wall the greater the crush resistance- PVC with the proper end caps PVC glued on both ends- double wrapped in bubble wrap and with crushed newspapers at each end of the barrel set- I don't mess with the UPS idiots, I use USPS Priority Mail Insured with the tracking code number- and I describe the item enclosed as "gauged steel machine tubing"-- I have done this, both with Buck and a few other folks who bought barrels from me, so far- 100%. Not cheap- the heavy wall PVC tubing and end caps, plus the weight factor, and insurance at way above replacement cost- try to find a set of 28" O frame barrels for a AHE 20 gauge- ain't easy-

For those who have purchased barrels, I offer a $15.00 rebate plus the cost of their sending me back the now empty tube with the caps-

Calvin- I'm no "William Pinkerton" BUT sure looks to me like vandalism, and I'd be filing a report against UPS- thank God the barrels weren't damaged, but someone at UPS needs to get the message- Loud and clear-:crying:

[calvin humburg]

Yes Francis it would fell very good to meet that fellow and maybe teach him some respect for other peoples stuff. years back i orderd 5 hichory ram rods from dixie gunworks got an empty box from ups called the lady at dixie she said she would send me some more asked her if ups would pay for them she said they just eat the loss because its such a hassel to deal with the __________. It's just very sad how people are and what our great country is turning into because of em. Good thing there is parker fourm with some good ol boys to jaw with.:) ch

[Jack Cronkhite]

Calvin: Very pleased that the end result was not a catastrophe. Maybe they don't like gun stuff. I guess they handle "gazillions" of packages but my luck with them has not been great. Last order from Brownell's arrived like this. I did file a claim that was supposedly approved but to date haven't gotten any satisfaction. This goes back to July. I now ask for anything coming from USA to go through USPS. UPS charges a healthy brokerage fee that does not happen between the USPS and Canada Post.
Jack

[Craig Smith]

WOW! Calvin, I would have had a heart attack.

I just about did!.... I raised he** on everyone I could at UPS. Doesn't do any good... I keep threatening to cancel my account and go with Fed-Ex, and they don't seem to care.

Calvin, I have a set of 10ga. barrels in the shop that are just like your's. I am looking forward to getting them finished up...

[Brad Bachelder]

I agree with Francis, the culprit here is schedule 40 PVC, it is not impact resistant. The condition of the barrels is a testament to the internal packaging. I suggest using schedule 80, much, much stronger. Tubes are a great way to ship barrels.
I am not trying to make apologies for UPS or anyother carrier, we use them all. Two factors are critical to safe shipping, proper packaging and ample insurance. You must assume the package will be kicked around or dropped, because, it will. We ship and recieve 30 to 40 packages a month, Guns and Barrels, knock on wood, over the years we have seen only a handfull of shipping damage cases. In each case insurance covered the gun or needed repairs.
Anybody that has ever shipped anything has at least one horror story, its kind of like a piece of clay target hitting your new buttstock.

Brad

[calvin humburg]

I guess i'm just an idiot for thinking a barrel in pvc pipe with a fragile sticker would be safe. schedule 40 pvc is pretty darn tough. ch obviously hindsight is 20 20.

[Chuck Bishop]

For us non-plummers out here, how do you determine if it's schedule 40 or 80 and where can you buy the schedule 80 at your local hardware store?

[Harry Collins]

Chuck,

Go to the electrical department of any Home Depot or Lowes. It is grey and will say shedule 80 on the side in black letters. It is about twice as thick as schedule 40.

Harry

[Francis Morin]

You don't need to be either a "Plummer" aka- Christopher, or a "Plumber" which comes not from Plumb, Level and in Square- but from Pb or Plumbe- the Latin word for lead- as were the original feed and possibly drain pipes for older houses- we all know Lead is a "No-No' for paint, and unfortunately, also for hunting dem ol' webfeets-

Pipe schedule is a numerical scale, just as are the gauges of our beloved shotty-guns-, but in reverse- Schedule 80 has a greater wall thickness than Schedule 40-- 20 is a higher number than 12, but we all know which number represents the larger bore dia. in a scattergun-

I use nothing but PVC schedule 80 pipe with appropriate sized caps for shipping barrels, or any other tubular object and wrap the item(s) with bubble wrap, and pad both ends. Lowe's, Home Depot or any quality builder's suppy outfit should have schedule 80 PVC- or they can get it for you- usually comes in 10 ft. lengths- according to my ASTM sheet, Code D-1785- a 3" I.D. schedule 40 PVC pipe will have a nom. wall thickness of 1/4"- so the O.D. is then 3 & 1/2"- and then the Cap I.D. would be the same- BUT schedule 80 has a nom. wall thickness of 3/8" so the O.D. is then 3 & 3/4"- I can also check the crush strength ratings in PSI for both 40 and 80 if you'd like-

Calvin- you were lucky that the barrels weren't damaged- under normal conditions your packaging process would have been A-OK- but with the "Fragile" tag- sorta like a red flag in front of a angry bull-

[Chuck Bishop]

Harry and Francis, thanks for your reply to a non-plumber and Christopher Plummer is a fine actor.

One last question, can I get the pipe in damascus PVC or do I have to stick with fluid PVC?:rolleyes:

[Harry Collins]

Chuck,

I have bent a lot of PVC. You put it in a long rectangular box with heating elements and turn it until you think it is flexable enough to get the bend you want. I've had some come out looking like it was Damascus and or twist.

Harry

[Dean Romig]

[QUOTE=Chuck Bishop;25795]Harry and Francis, thanks for your reply to a non-plumber and Christopher Plummer is a fine actor.QUOTE]

Well and good, but the question remains..... Who is Joseph Plummer??? :whistle:

[Francis Morin]

Or perhaps the Mid-Western rust belt Stater - Joe The Plumber- election year 2008-- his "Warhol-ian 15 minutes of Fame"?? Amazing isn't it what the change of one letter can do- change the second "m" into a "b" and you have a skilled tradesman who maybe makes as much as the fabled Philadelphia lawyer- and has to put his hands into the same messy goo (clogged drains or a bitter divorce perhaps?) in the course of a day's work.

When I was welding schedule pipe in the power plant, the fitters were akin to Master Plumbers- and it takes years of practice to joint and prepare pipe correctly- just as few rookie welders on API can run the "Arkansas bellhole" first shot out of the box--

Now as for Damascus PVC- no matter the schedule- if Lowe's or Home Deport or Handy Andy Plumbing Supply opens a branch in Syria, there's where I'd place my order for such a "special item"-- But I concur, just as the old saying "A good gun deserves a good case"- it would only be fit and proper to ship those fine Bernard barrels from your 12 ga. CH(E) in a Damascus PVC tube--:cool::cool:

[Chuck Bishop]

Hell, I don't know who Joseph Plummer is but he might be a 10th cousin to Obama just like Palin and Limbaugh!

I'm currently Googling to find the schedule for the PVC 80 pipe. I guess you can only buy it during certain times of the day, therefore they need a schedule.:vconfused:

[Francis Morin]

Chuck- I'll check my shop inventory for you- I may have an extra capped PVC tube- just need to know your barrel length- as John Dunkle has now added the "Give-Away" section as well as the Parkers for sale for members of the PGCA- we can now swap, barter or give to brother members misc. items- If I read John's post correctly, we are allowed to recover exact shipping cost. Advise

[Marc Retallack]

Hi Chuck,

If you should happen to find the local Home Depot or Lowes doesn't have Schedule 80, try R.F. Fager's. I assume the one on Derry St. (564-1166) would be the closest for you. If you're closer to Camp Hill, their main location is on State Rd (761-0660).

Cheers
Marcus

[Chuck Bishop]

All kidding aside guys, thanks for the interesting information. I don't currently need to ship barrels but sometime in the future I want to ship Briley a set of O/U barrels for choke tube installation.

[Francis Morin]

Just received back a 12 ejector LC Smith I loaned to a new friend I made at the June "Yooper Shoot" in MI UP- Arnold is familiar as both a shooter, collector and gunsmith with many European sidelock action shotguns, but had not yet examined an LC Smith. I also loaned him a spare copy of the Brophy book published by Brownell's in 1981 on the specs. and parts schematics for various "Elsies"- both were shipped UPS insured ground rate from Iron Mt. Wed. 10/13/2010 and arrived safely at my home address today 10-15- safe and sound- so UPS does get it 'right" sometimes. The Smith was in a Dokosil padded case and then wrapped in heavy cardboard by the shipper, the book wrapped also in heavy cardboard- BUT- Murphy's Law does prevail at times, to wit: "A three thousand dollar PCB will blow in line to prevent a .30 fuse from blowing, due to a power surge" or-- "the odds of a heavy jellied piece of toast landing jelly side down is in direct proportion to the value of the carpeting upon which it lands"--

Sooooo!- You ship a 12 ga. 870 back to Remington for warranty repair work, and it goes through smooth as silk- but your Purdey best 12 you sent to Kirk Merrington-- well, maybe yes, and maybe no-- One of my good friends has some fine doubles and over-unders, and he will flat outright NOT ship, he will drive to whatever gun specialist with whom he is dealing at that point in time- Not all of us can do that however--:whistle:

[Robert Delk]

R.J. Anton was a well known stockmaker from this area,Waterloo,Iowa, and he shipped and received dozens, if not hundreds, of guns through the Hudson,Iowa post office where my father was postmaster. Dad told me he shipped them without a hitch for the time dad was postmaster and he was insuring some of the guns for up to $10grand.This was in the late 60's and early 70's.I think USPS is a better way to go but often it is the "luck of the draw" that prevails.

[Linn Matthews]

Francis
Appreciate your note re PVC. You mention gluing the end caps on and then, further in your note, you mention paying to get them back--I assume for reuse.
I am probably thick-headed but doesn't gluing the caps necessitate sawing them off upon receipt at the shop?

Linn

[Francis Morin]

You are right Sir- BUT-- the older method of taping the end caps in place did not allow for some sharp thief in a UPS or other facility warehouse removing an end cap, removing the duct or strapping tape first, then taking out the H&H Royal 20 bore set of barrels or whatever- maybe a Gillum Salmon Rod- something of great value indeed- putting back something to add weight to simulate the real insured item, re-taping the one end cap, and back into the system we go- SO-- I cut the tubes way overlength- ie: a 30" set of barrels- I might have a 38" tube (measured sans end caps- I lay out the 30" and fit the end caps w/o PVC glue or pipe dope- and make a "hash" mark for the cut line adjacent to one of the end caps- and denote that fact in my correspondence to the recipient of the tube- that end gets a block of soft pine as a added "buffer- then the wadded newspaper on both breech and muzzle ends of the set of barrels-which are wrapped in bubble wrap, after receiving a light spray of WD-40 or Rem oil aerosol- this way, when the recipient cuts on the mark- his saw hits soft pine-and with a no-slip fit with both ends padded tightly, no rattle or noise when the PVC sch 80 pipe is moved-

I wish we didn't have to take such measures- you are right- end cut off end cannot be refitted, maybe notched for a ash tray at the deer camp, but that's about it- so I loose that cap and the inch or two of the pipe, so if a party ships the used PVC pipe back to me for a refund, it gets "re-sized for a set of 28" or 26" barrels-

Sorry to be so "wordy" but I have beau coup horror stories from friends with either stolen or damaged split cane rods or Parker, Fox, Smith barrel sets, and I am of Irish heritage and realize the words of wisdom in Murphy's Law: If something can go wrong, it will- so I go "overboard" I suppose in trying to prove Bro Murphy wrong (and maybe stand him to a pint o'Guinness--if I do) :bigbye::bigbye::bigbye:

[Bruce Day]

For the unwary, the subject of shipping guns and barrels arises on this forum every year or so, with the same issues, same result and same recommendations, that is, ship USPS insured for the full amount, in heavy duty PVC tubing for barrels, sturdy cardboard and inexpensive plastic gun case or built up wood case for guns. Identify it as a gun to the Post Office and insure for full amount. I've shipped guns insured for $10,000 many times with no damage and no issues. The USPS insured procedure takes a few days longer because they are kept in locked bins overnight and must be bar code read and processed at each transit point.

[Marc Retallack]

Francis

I would think one end of the tube with a female threaded coupling and a clean-out plug would solve the need to cut the tube each time it's shipped. Place the tube in a box and ship.

Cheers
Marc

[Robin Lewis]

Good point Bruce, I just added this to the FAQ page. Thanks.

[Francis Morin]

I prefer USPS insured with tracking- as I don't have a FFL, if I have to ship either receivers or an entire shotgun, I will have my gunsmith friend Brad do this for me- his call as to UPS, USPS or Granny Grundy's Storm Door and Flying Circus MATS--:corn:

[Francis Morin]

But my friend, unless you first "dope" the threads with PVC cement, the same Baggage Apes that can slice off the duct tape can also unthread the end cap and remove the barrels from your 16 ga. LeFever Optomisty and replace same with re-bar-- I am NOT a trusting guy when it comes to shipments of valuable items- so I take the extra and more costly route- if the threaded end cap on one end of the PVC tube has worked for you, I am most glad to hear that-:cool: