Pheasant and Duck Loads

[John R. Richards]

I am shooting DHE Reproduction guns, a 12 and 20. Even though they are built for some of the newer magnum loads I really don't want to shoot the guns "loose" by hammering them with some of the hot loads out there. Secondly, I don't think it takes the 1500fps to 1700fps to kill the birds. What do you generally shoot on wild pheasants hunted with and without dogs and duck hunting which is mostly pass shooting? Unfortunatley I don't live in an area where they decoy in very often and we can then shoot'em in the face, instead it is more pass shooting than anything else.

I would be grateful for any information you can pass along.

Thanks

John

[Harry Collins]

John,

I have been useing Kent "Impact" Tungsten Matrix Pheasant loads. They are 1 1/4 oz of #5's at 1400 fps. I agree that this is over kill on velocity. I prefer 1200 fps, but this is what is available. I purchased several flats of this stuff in 12 and 20 gauge a few years ago for $12.50 a box of 10. Another way to go is NiceShot that you can load yourself just like lead with no buffer or order shells from www.rstshells.com Their velocitys are more to my taste.

Harry

[John R. Richards]

Thanks Harry. I have used Kent's Impact loads and they are good ones. Your purchase of several flats at $12.50 a box was a smart move. They are somewhere around $30.00 to $33.00 a box now...Thanks for the feedback. I had ordered some Bismuth but the dealer is out and has a backorder in but it seems Bismuth has a production problem so it will take awhile to get any shipped. Looks like Kents Impact or Bismuth will get my business for a time.
John

[Harry Collins]

John,

NiceShot is what I reload for ducks and geese. I know you've done the math, however to purchase 25 rounds of Bismuth or tungston matrix you would have to get it for less than $30 a box of 10 to beat RST's price on NiceShot.

Harry

[Kenny Graft]

Soon it will be cheaper to make pellets from pure silver!...or maybe scrap gold??? 75.00 for a box of 25 nice shot!...not so nice!

[Jack Cronkhite]

Soon it will be cheaper to make pellets from pure silver!...or maybe scrap gold??? 75.00 for a box of 25 nice shot!...not so nice!

Ouch !!

This used to be expensive. I started buying these around $5 when other brands were in the $3 range. I cannot get my head around $3 per shell.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/Picture_007%7E1.jpg

[charlie cleveland]

why not just shoot the 2 3/4 inch steel load lots cheaper and not hard on gun or pocket book.....charlie

[Eric Eis]

Charlie is right, in Repo's (not original Parkers) with open chokes you can shoot steel. You need TM or Bismuth if you are going to original old Parkers.

[John R. Richards]

Charlie and Eric:

I agree with both of you. BUT, I do not like steel. Admittedly they are making much better steel shot loads then several years ago, but I've seen to many ducks hit with steel still continue to fly off and you know they were going to die a short distance away. If you don't break a wing bone or get a neck or head shot they continue to fly. Losing a wounded bird, duck, or animal is painful for me and my experience with steel tells me it just doesn't have the same impact and killing power that lead, Bismuth, Hevi-shot, etc. has. I know it costs considerably more but so far I have been able to just "grin and bear it".

John

[Eric Eis]

Agree with you on that John, I don't do much waterfowl hunting so I was looking at it from a cost point of view.

[Fred Preston]

I agree, no steel or hard stuff in an old barrel and through no choke tighter than a nominal modified. I use "Black Cloud" 2&3/4", one ounce #3 in the gun pictured below (and recently posted as my grouse/woodcock gun) where notox is required such as certain public hunting lands in SD and waterfowl. The latter game is approached with my sneaky <12' canoe. The gun is a 1901 VH which I bought with barrells cut from 30" to <26". I burst the left barrel at the end of the forend (all fngers accounted for) with a 1&1/2 oz load (obstruction, honed too thin? I don't know) and Kirk Merrington sleeved in a new pair, nominally choked Sk in and Sk out; thus, steel is ok. I also stretched the shortened pull with a Galazan/Silvers pad; comb height is just right; balance point an inch behind the pin.

Clearly steel is not an effective substitute for lead, but maybe better than pebbles or rock salt.

Happy Hunting, Fred

[calvin humburg]

You shoot non toxic loads at phesants Harry? ch

[Harry Collins]

Calvin,

The short answer is no. Here in Kentucky we have no phesant with the exception of release birds. I have more prosperous friends that go west and north to hunt them. I'm sort of stuck with what is near and only have to use nontox on waterfoul.

Harry

[charlie cleveland]

i have shot steel through several of my old guns parkers lc smiths steven etc.some of these guns havepitted barrels full lenth of tubes....withsteel wads used in the shells andmodified or more open cokes i have not seen any damage to my guns....i agree that steel is not as good aslead and thatthe range is cut back...but steel will kill out to45 yards with no problem...this is my findings and opinons charlie

[calvin humburg]

Harry,
Sorry my mind dosen't work 100% most of the time I see now that was the name of the shells you were talking about matrix phesent loads.

[Harry Collins]

Yes, I shoot the Phesant TM load at waterfowl. Smacks them pretty good.
Harry

[Jack Cronkhite]

Over the years, I used any ammo, from unknown reloads given me to the cheapest stuff from eastern Europe to the best Winchester Remington or CIL products I could buy. I really found that when the bird and the pellets occupied the same space at the same time, I had a bird. If I didn't have a bird, it was because I missed, not because of the ammo. Now I'm not running any old thing through the Parkers. I have a supply of #6 Remington Game loads in 2 3/4 inch 1 oz and #7 Golden Pheasant in 2 1/2 inch 1 oz.

I'm having great difficulty getting RST or Polywad to Canada. No carrier will do it. I ultimately would have to have it shipped to my MT FFL who then does the export paper work and delivers to the border where we would meet and do an exchange of $$ for lead. But......... the cost of ammo becomes prohibitive in that manner.

Soo...... the lifter remains in the steel tomb until I can sort out what big name ammo might be safe or find someone to do up some BP for me (I have never reloaded)

Cheers,
Jack

[John R. Richards]

Jack:

Do Canadian laws require the use of non-toxic shot on waterfowl and in National forests or Wildlife Management areas?

[Jack Cronkhite]

No lead for waterfowl. If you are hunting migratory and upland on the same day, don't have any lead shot shells on your person when you are in waterfowl habitat. You are at risk of losing gun vehicle hunting privileges etc. should you be checked.

I have not bothered the ducks and geese for quite some time but had Dad's SKB modified to take steel shot so I could if I wanted to.

For the time being, I'll content myself with upland birds.

You can find it all by clicking here (http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/cps-spc/pubs/cons/lead-plomb/appendix-g-annexe-eng.php)

I didn't know this little gem from that reference.

It has been recommended that the ban on the use of lead shot be extended to all game hunting in order to safeguard the health of people who consume game in significant amounts.

I'm so happy someone is concerned for my health. I am one of those people who consume a lot of game and have done so for decades. With all the lead hoopla, I had my blood tested for lead a few months ago. My levels are "normal" ie same as your average vegetarian. I'm thinking we should ban manure use in the vegetarian's garden plots to protect them from ingesting e-coli which is bound to make it into their carrots. I wonder how many have already died:shock: We should start a movement (pun fully intended)

Cheers,
Jack

[John R. Richards]

Jack:

Good response. Thanks. Beware the words "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you". In the US the EPA dropped the lawsuit/proposed ban on the use of lead in sinkers, shot and bullets. Simply put, they acknowledged they didn't have the authority to impose such a ban. Thank the Lord for some common sense.

John

[Joe Bernfeld]

I use 1 1/8 oz. Federal Steel #2 (2 3/4") in my 12 ga. Parker Repro for ducks and I find that it works the same as lead if I keep the range reasonable (40 yds or less), and put the shot where the bird is. I can't hit much any farther than that anyway, unless it holds still. For Pheasants I've never used more than 1 oz of #6, and I usually hunt them with 7/8 oz. in a 20 ga.
Joe

[Jack Cronkhite]

Joe: You've noted a very important point. Keep the range reasonable. While it is possible to bring 'em down way out there, wounding and loss probabilities increase. I'm a less than 40 yard rooster shooter. Speaking of that, coffee is in me and I'm gonna load the dogs/guns/ammo and see what might be loafing around some habitat I have yet to discover but have been told it's not bad. I'll know in a couple hours.

Cheers,
Jack

[Jack Cronkhite]

Don't believe everything you're told. Spent the full afternoon. Saw 6 hens and one out-of-range rooster and drove twice my normal route. All not lost, got some good old house, old barn pictures.

Cheers,
Jack

[calvin humburg]

Jack, loading blackpowder shells is really easy and they are a hoot to shoot if its a 12 you can get magtech brass.Harry told me how to do it and i'm sure he'd go through it again. One of thoes days when you tell yourself I don't have to kill to have fun:) ch

[Francis Morin]

I agree- I've been a serious waterfowler for over 50 years- No steel load will drop big mallards and Canadian geese like the lead- and the Winchester Lubabaloy coppered, the old CIL "Canuck" and especially the coppered Federal Premium loads were first rate-

With steel I use either a std field M12 and No. 2, or my 3" mag M12 and heavier BB for Geese- especially when the season gets into flight birds. I shoot field and water decoys, a lot of pass shooting- both M12's are 30" Full, no damage to the chokes or muzzles from years of heavy use with steel-BUT, I would go back to the coppered lead loads in a heartbeat if the Feds dropped this silly steel shot reg for migratory birds.

If I use either my 12 GHE or 12 LC Smith 2E with 3" chambers- I use the Cabela's Classic doubles- No. 4 for ducks and 3" No. 2 for Geese. Both guns are somewhat "hybrids"- the GHE is a project gun with 28" Vulcan steel barrels, 2 & 3/4" chambers and .015 right and .025 left barrel choke constrictions-(I doubled on Mallards with it last year- a "first ever') The Smith was rebarreled at Fulton in 1927 with a set of 32" Nitro tubes and factory raised ventilated rib- 3" chambers (not marked Longrange) both tubes choked .035"--

I dropped two Canadas on the opening morning this past Sat- 9/Oct- with the Smith and those Cabela's loads- field hunting with decoys- 20 yards and closing- both birds folded in mid-air and dropped (one got the second barrel for insurance) and when I cleaned them later, the pellets had penetrated the feathers, skin and had broken breast bone and wing bone joints at the body juncture- BUT- both birds were incoming and hanging their wings, ready to drop down and greet the K-Mart "foolies" below. Pass shooting at greater distances, taking high over head shots, or outgoing "spooked" birds- those shots I pass up nowadays. By 0930 a Bluebirdy day, so I picked up and packed it in- no ducks working--

For pheasant, here where we don't yet have to use steel or non-toxic- Tower released birds at the area clubs- I usually use that big tight choked Smith 2E- with live pigeon loads- usually a 1&1/8 oz. in first barrel, a 1&1/4 oz. in the second barrel- Towers are high, wind and sun, but other shooters have done well with more open chokes and lighter loads, even in the Winter months. A study of the British driven pheasant shooting might verify the best shell selection. For upland hunting on the same clubs (our area native fezzants are scarce nowadays) I use either the GHE 12 or a 3E Smith with 7 & 1/2 shot AA Trap loads in both tubes--same with pointing dawgs or flushing dawgs-- more pellets in the pattern than with 6's- BUT a hunt in MT. for "Ditch Parrots" with wind and heavy weather, the std. M12 and Express 6's (where lead is still legal) get my nod.

Just my 2 cents worth, but boy do I wish for the good old days more as I get older-:bigbye:

[Chuck Heald]

My favorite 20 g pheasant load is the Rem Nitro pheasant 1oz # 5 @1300 fps. Whacks a bird hard.

I havent seen them for afew years now and settled on a flat of Fiocci Golden Pheasant @1250 fps but haven't used any yet.

[John R. Richards]

Chuck:

I just got back from a pheasant hunt in South Dakota and shot my 20 ga dhe repro. I found the Federal Wing Shok 2 ¾" load at 1 oz. 1350fps in #4 to be hard hitting and an effective load. I was shooting an IC/MOD barrel and had my Mod/Full barrel but didn't need it. The guys shooting 12's were using the Fiochhi Golden Pheasant load and they were very happy with the results. In cleaning the birds it was easy to find the ones hit with that Golden Pheasant load since they are nickle plated shot and the shot really stands out against the bird's skin.

We were hunting out of the Parkston, SD area and did not find an over abundance of birds although we limited out daily we hunted long and hard. The area had 10 inches of rain in June and another 9 or 10 inches in July so most of the chicks got wet and cold and died.

It's fun shooting the Parker, even if it is a repro. All of the other guys were shooting newer o/u or semi autos. The guys shooting 20 ga o/u were using 3 inch shells. What a waste of money and overkill.

[Frank Cronin]

Jack,

What a mess you have to go through. I feel your pain. I live in the quasi-communist state Peoples Republik of Massachusetts and I have to deal with the restrictions what can and can not be sent to my home. If I want to get something from MidwayUSA like ammo, reloading supplies, or anything the state's Attorney General doesn't like because she thinks it is evil, I have to send it to a friend who lives in a free state in NH. Have you considered trying reloading to bypass the restrictions of having ammo sent to you? If you decide to, are there restrictions in Candada to get reloading supplies like primers, powder, shot? If it isn't, you should because reloading is safe, economical, and fun to do. If you have questions, give me a shout and I'll help you out.

Just curious and hope things work out for you.

Frank

Over the years, I used any ammo, from unknown reloads given me to the cheapest stuff from eastern Europe to the best Winchester Remington or CIL products I could buy. I really found that when the bird and the pellets occupied the same space at the same time, I had a bird. If I didn't have a bird, it was because I missed, not because of the ammo. Now I'm not running any old thing through the Parkers. I have a supply of #6 Remington Game loads in 2 3/4 inch 1 oz and #7 Golden Pheasant in 2 1/2 inch 1 oz.

I'm having great difficulty getting RST or Polywad to Canada. No carrier will do it. I ultimately would have to have it shipped to my MT FFL who then does the export paper work and delivers to the border where we would meet and do an exchange of $$ for lead. But......... the cost of ammo becomes prohibitive in that manner.

Soo...... the lifter remains in the steel tomb until I can sort out what big name ammo might be safe or find someone to do up some BP for me (I have never reloaded)

Cheers,
Jack

[Chuck Heald]

John,
I hunted around Huron. I did my part to get our group's bag avg up using my Win M42 the first day. I was shooting Win 3" 3/4 oz # 6 and never had so much fun. Day 2 & 3, the 20 ga came out. A BSS 28" M/F. Good fun too, just that the .410 feels so much more rewarding to me.

[calvin humburg]

Frank, that stinks seems like that would b mail discrimination.:) ch