Bird dog training

[Kirk Potter]

For anyone who trained their bird dog, did you follow a training system or plan from any particular book?

Any particular book you'd recommend?

[Rick Losey]

You might want to specify pointer vs retriever

Unless you are classic enough to separate bird dog from gun dog

[Kirk Potter]

You might want to specify pointer vs retriever

Unless you are classic enough to separate bird dog from gun dog

Pointer.. Llewellin Setter in particular.

Thinking of putting down a deposit for spring 2019.

[Rick Losey]

George Bird Evans "Troubles With Bird Dogs" is a great training program

Or do a search on Delmar Smith

[Dennis Yager]

if you decide on a trainer Springfield Kennels west of Port Huron did a great job with my Griff pup this summer.

[Gerald McPherson]

I believe I used Delmar Smith's book while training my first setter, Sport around 50 years ago. It was a small paper back book.

[Rick Losey]

BTW

Beyond basic obedience

Get the pup a book

He'll train you as much as the other way around

[John Dallas]

Get involved with a club which focuses on your breed/type of dog. I learned an awful lot by listening and watching men who were much more knowledgeable than I

[Kirk Potter]

Thanks, my English setter Willow will be turning 5 years old in January, I got her just as I was really starting to get involved in upland hunting. She has turned into an "ok" bird dog, but I feel like she could of been so much more had it not been for my poor training. That's not to say that I haven't had some great times with her, I really have a lot of fun and enjoy anytime I'm able to take her out. I've been thinking a lot about a new puppy lately, probably spring of 2019, and want to be 100% committed and do a good of job as a possibly can.. Not sure yet if this means hiring a trainer or what.

[Jay Gardner]

BTW

Beyond basic obedience

Get the pup a book

He'll train you as much as the other way around

THIS. Trick is to learn from each other and there is no substitute for time and patience. Remember you are a team and you work together. Enjoy the journey.

JDG

[Bill Murphy]

The NAVHDA Green Book is small, light, soft cover, and will tell you everything you need to know. If you ever get involved with NAVHDA people, you will know what they are doing.

[Mark Colangelo]

Yes. George Hickox. Georgehickox.com

He raises and trains Englis Pointer, setters, and Labs. He has videos for pointers and flushers.

I used his DVD's and bought two labs from him.

Mark C

[Phillip Carr]

I bought my first bird dog puppy an orange and white Brittney in 1981. A great time to train a bird dog since our bird numbers were at an all time high.
I knew little about gun dog training but was eager to learn. I purchased Best way to train your gun dog. The Delamar Smith method written by Bill Tarrant. I recommend that you take a look at this book as It will assist you in bringing out the best in your dog and also teach you a lot about what you need to do and understand about dogs.
You should really consider what breed works for the type of hunting you will be doing, and just as importantly the breed of dog that best works for you and your family's situation.
Do some research and buy from a proven breeder. I like buying dogs from guys that hunt wild birds and trial their dogs with a history of having great dogs. The most expensive dog can be one that was free. That might mean waiting until a pup becomes avalible from the breeder, and even traveling out of state to get what you want.
Dogs like race horses need to have it in their genes. Thats not to say that a guy doesnt get lucky once in awhile and just happen into a great dog, but for most of us that are not proffesionals we may only have a dozen gun dogs in our life time.
After the initial purchase of a dog, they all cost about the same to feed and care for so I like to stack the odds in my favor.
Im from the school of thought you cant start them too young. They can start traveling on the truck when they are 8 or 9weeks old. Thats all part of training. Also nothing takes the place of birds. Find a good supply of birds, you will need it to train and finish you dog. Realize every dog and trainer is a little differnet.
What I do does not mean its the best way, just something that works for me.
2019 is not that far away, start reseaching for that guy that has great dogs. Do your home work now. When Planned breedings of proven dogs are done there is usually people with numbers in line waiting to take their pick from the litter.
Have fun and good luck finding and training your next Gun dog.

[Timothy Salgado]

I agree with Bill on using the NAVHDA Green Book and joining one of their chapters, I did that when I trained both my GSP and GWP. I'd also recommend Joan Bailey's book "How to Help Gundogs Train Themselves" which covers everything from puppyhood to 12 to 15 months when the Green Book fits in. Again I fully recommend joining a NAVHDA chapter, by participating in their training days you'll be able to help and learn from others and receive help in return and generally the use of chapter resources such as available training birds, bird launchers, training sites, etc.
Good Luck.

[Rick Losey]

I would think the NAVHDA versatile breed training will have a lot that is unrelated to setters

To sum up the horse comments above. "Horses for courses"

[Scot Cardillo]

I would think the NAVHDA versatile breed training will have a lot that is unrelated to setters

To sum up the horse comments above. "Horses for courses"

Yes and, no.

NAVHDA is great for someone new to gundogs and the exposure coupled with socialization is wonderful for a young dog. I've played some of the dog games but, it's not for me (at least on the east coast)

Cannot comment on western field trialing, unfortunately, but in comparison to AKC hunt test's..NAVHDA is by far, the better choice. JMO

[Timothy Salgado]

The only thing that I see with the NAVHDA system that is unrelated to classic setters would be the duck search / blind retrieve aspect of training. That's a personal decision, I hunt upland and waterfowl so I would train my dog for waterwork regardless of the breed.
The pointing dog aspect of the training would be the same whether the dog is a GSP, Brittany, Setter or Pointer. They'll need to range and search, locate birds, point and hold and remain steady through wing and shot if that's the level of trained dog you want. The additional aspect of tracking a wounded bird is also essential in recovering game. The OP asked about books for dog training and I think he has enough time to pick a couple of the ones listed to read through and see which he feels is best for him. I checked NAVHDA's website and see that there are three chapters located in Michigan so the OP can contact the closest and see for himself whether their system will work for him. I just think NAVHDA is the most user friendly with their local chapter setup for all the resources I listed in my earlier post.
By the way although I'm a Life Member of NAVHDA, I currently own flushing retrievers because my main quarry are pheasants and waterfowl, and that's what works for me.
Take care and good luck.

[Scot Cardillo]

I have followed the method of "learning what NOT to do", sadly, from experience :rotf:

Very natural, fire-breathing "on 11" hard charging, point slamming bird-dogs in big country is what does it for me.

That said..that puts me in the GSP / English Pointer world. Setters are stunning (and beautiful) bird-dogs but I just haven't much experience with them. (that's not to say Setters take a back-seat to any other breed- just limited personal experience)

Being a pointer guy..that means fetch is just an annoyance to a pointy dog who has the instinct to get on the bird (just to make sure it's done for) and then, find another. I've force fetched two dogs..one of them old school with a line to their toe..and my current dog (Kansas) who I force fetched following Evan Grahams method, "Smartworks", albeit somewhat modified to account for the dogs personality. It worked wonderfully and I couldn't recommend it enough. I would recommend not moving too fast and, forget (at least for the time being) what you want to see..let the dog show you what he or she is made of and then, build from there. Obedience (biddability) first and, always. Good luck.

[King Brown]

Training Your Retriever by James Lamb Free, the old, definitive classic which I started with my Labs 50 years ago with great results.

I believe the old system makes a different and better experience for owners and their dogs than the newer, faster, field trials training with e-collars.

Whatever works, of course. One size doesn't fit all.

[Kevin McCormack]

LIVE BIRDS LIVE BIRDS LIVE BIRDS LIVE BIRDS LIVE BIRDS LIVE BIRDS LIVE BIRDS!

[Rick Losey]

dead birds dead birds dead birds

[Kirk Potter]

Thanks everyone.

[Jay Gardner]

Wild birds, wild birds, wild birds. There is no substitute. I won’t put any of my dogs on pen-raised birds until they know how to handle wild ones.

[Phillip Carr]

Jay that is what I did with my first dog. Its a great way to train if there are plenty of birds. Now I like to start the dogs young so I use lots of pen raised birds. One of my hunting partners raises birds in huge flight pens. Dogs dont know the difference for most of the basics.
Although other than one pigeon during one of their first trips out where they get one pigeon, they dont get another bird in their mouth until they are steady to wing and shot.
When Means quail season opens up they are ready. Still make some mistakes but wild birds are a whole new experience for them, with thousands of new smells, deer, fox, rabbits and other animals to distract them.
Training dogs is like a road trip in lots of ways to get there, some paths take a little longer and some are more fun. Main thing is is to have fun and end up at the same destination.
Dang I really want to get a new pup.

[allen newell]

http://DSC_4285

[Matt Valinsky]

Just my opinions here.

Breeders who trail their dogs is a good thing. Why? Because they are breeding for birdie dogs, dogs that have the genes to produce the kind of dogs that will hunt and have prey drive. Forget the notion that trail dogs run to big. Big runners can be taught to hunt in the range you want much easier than a boot licker to range out. If you can, see the mother and dad work birds. If the breeder declines to do this, look else where. Pay attention to the mother, I'm a firm believer in the female and tail female in the bottom of the pedigree. A puppy pointing a wing on the end of a fishing is only sight pointing, doesn't mean much, kinda like pointing a butterfly.

Books and dvd's are great for telling you how to do things but not so good in telling you how to fix your screw ups. you can take that grain of salt from one who knows.

A couple things not to do.
Don't teach your pointing dog to sit. When your working with your dog and he/she sits it's a sign of confusion. Your dog is always trying to please you so if he gets confused he will sit down because he KNOWS that will make you happy.

No soft noise making toys, makes for a mouthy dog.

When he's a puppy, if you don't want something chewed up take it out of harm's way. Do you think he will take to retrieving if he recalls all the things he had in his mouth that you yelled at him for and yanked out of his mouth. Save yourself a lot of hassle here.

Teach him the concept of "whoa" at the food bowl, house door and truck door. Your not teaching him whoa, just that he is supposed to stand still till you release him. This will pay off in spades when you whoa break him.

Don't whoa break him until he is gun conditioned and collar conditioned.

Don't gun and collar condition until you have really brought the prey drive out of him.

NEVER set your dog up to fail. Always make sure you are in control of the situation. An example, when your teaching your dog he's name and to come, do it with a long check chord. call come, if he doesn't get the concept gently reel him into you with the check chord, he will catch on. and you will be the one in control.

Always a soft voice and use only the words you want him to recognize as being meaningful. Less is more.

It's a building block sort of thing. Don't move on until he understands what your currently working on.

A training collar is a tool not an instrument deal out punishment it gets their attention and helps to reinforce. The proper use of a training collar is a great help and will get you from point A to point B in a shorter amount of time. With my guy's the collar is used for correction with stimulation, check in with me on tone and come to my side with vibration. While in the field I have control of my dogs without the use of verbal commands.

While training watch your dogs eyes and body language, it will tell you all you need to know.

Yard work, yard work, yard work. If you can't handle him in the yard how can you expect to handle him in the field.

Remember, it's all about building confidence in your partner and more importantly in yourself as his handler.

By the way, I've seen a seven year old coach potato turn into a darn good bird finding machine.

It's a journey, one step at a time. Best wishes for you and your pup AND your 5 year old.