Advice before buying

[Jack Johnson]

I need some advise before I go further in this transaction. I was at a gun show today here in Fayetteville , Ar . I spied a Ph grade 16 ga two barreled set. The serial number is 71711 . It was on a O frame and it had a 28 in Damascus and according to the dealer a 30 in fluid steel barreled set ( more about the fluid steel later ) . I will try and post some pic's but I took them from my Iphone and I am not sure how to do it.
The gun seller wanted $3500. obo for the set. I am not as gun savey as about 90 % of this forum but I would have rated the condition as fair to good , more to the side of fair. It had some dings ( not dents) on both barrels and the stock needed a good cleaning at the very least .The dealer thought this gun was made in the 1880 , but I didn't think he was correct. The barrel that he had listed as a fluid steel had twist steel stamped on the barrel rib ? It looked like a sound 16 ga but I thought $3500. was a bit much. I have seen such a set in the $2500. to $2700. range on Gunbroker and Gunsamerica . What are the forum's thoughts .I would like a good 16 ga set and this one could be it , but I want some comments before I go forward. Thanks Jack

[Chuck Bishop]

Jack, I think you need to be careful on this gun.

It was manufactured in 1892.

If the stock is just dirty and has shallow scratches and dents that's to be expected. The other thing on the stock is is it oil soaked at the head of the stock? Look closely for cracks in the stock.

For the receiver, do the barrels lock tight up on the receiver with no gap between the barrel and the standing breach? Check the safety for proper operation pulling the triggers on an empty chamber or snap caps. If all is OK, the receiver is probably ok although until live shells are used, you won't know right away.

The biggest concern is with the barrels. The claimed fluid steel barrels should not have "Twist Steel" on the rib. Either the barrels have been blued hiding the twist pattern, new fluid steel barrels have been substituted for the original barrels and the original rib relayed. Technically a PH should either have Twist barrels or Parker Special Steel barrels (I may be confused on the Parker Special Steel, could be just Parker Steel) and would be so marked on the rib. What's critical on both barrel sets is that the barrels are in good condition with no or minor pitting and that the barrel walls are sound and haven't been reamed out making the walls too thin to shoot safely. Check the end of the rib for a space between the matting and the end. It's a good indication whether the barrels have been cut.

Is this a private individual selling this or a dealer? I think his price is a little high for a fair/good gun. If you decide to go for it, get a 3 day inspection and have the gun checked out immediately.

[George Lander]

Jack: That's Good advice from Chuck. Chances are the twist barrels have been blued. Do the numbers on both sets of barrels match? Does it say "Twist" on the top rib of both? I would invest in a letter from PGCA that will tell you a whole lot more. Even so, the price does seem a bit high for a PH in "Fair" condition.

Just My Humble Opinion......George

[Richard Flanders]

The seemingly high price is likely based on two things: the two sets of bbls with one SUPPOSEDLY being fluid steel and thus being able to handle modern smokeless loads within reason, which they likely are not, and that it is a 16ga, which makes many Parkerphiles salivate shamelessly. Chucks advice is good. I'd be very careful on such a gun. Don't believe anything you hear until you can verify it without doubt, especially those 'steel' barrels. I'd be looking that thing over with a magnifying glass, wood and steel, and I'd ring the bbls to check for loose ribs. If I liked it I'd offer him less money....