Parker PH assessment

[Elmer Wolochaty]

Hello everyone, I'm a new member north of the 49th.
I've been a proud Parker owner since 1960, and currently have a problem in evaluating the gun prior to passing it on. I have several nagging questions with no answers that undoubtedly will effect the bottom line, and hopefully you can help.
My gun is a Parker SxS shotgun- serial # 93751 which would indicate it was built in 1899. There is a letter (P) along with the serial # on the breach to indicate it is a PH model with a 30 " barrel.

The markings on the barrel are a large letter(T) and a miniature (c) and a number (3) followed by a miniature (12) and a large 1 1/2 on the breach lock and a personal i dent number etched on both the barrel base and the wood stock brass shield which was a common practice in the 60's. How does this effect the over all market value?

The gun originally came with a natural cowhide carrying case that couldn't be refurbished, and I'm wondering if this was originally issued by the company as part of a package to the purchaser at the time, ... and what effect to the value if it is missing?

Also the gun barrel and stock have gun sling adaptors but no sing, which seems strange, and am wondering if this was a common option provided by the company by special order, or was it a later private after thought, and what effect does it have to the current market value?

In addition the gun barrel has a metal sliding hand hold that showed remnants of being covered with some sort of patented leather at one time that seemed to be part of the original equipment. Was it also supplied by Parker Bros.?

I purchased the gun from a co-worker in 1960, and I believe that it came from south eastern British columbia originally. We did a lot of bird hunting in those days, but I nearly always used my Remington automatic. I only purchased the Parker as a special keepsake mostly because my very first gun was a double. I've always been fond of a double and doubt if I ever used it more than a dozen times hunting throughout the years.

There are 3 notable exterior nicks on the barrels, but the bore seems to be fine and shinny and no visable abraisions. As to the over all condition, I might be prejudiced but would say it to be average or slightly below, but an expert might have a total different opinion. Never-the-less, I think that any enthusiast should be proud to own it.


I'll try to attach some photos that hopefully will help.

[Erick Dorr]

Elmer, The gun has been reblued totally where it would have had case colors on frame and hardware. the Stock has been altered or is a replacement. Does it have a lot of cast to it and is the top tang straight. The sling swivels are most likely added later although the factory did install some. The rubber butt is added. Period case would add but probably was not factory PB did sell cases early on. SS # detracts from value.
Barrel guard was probably leathercovered originally if manufactured but I am not aware that PB ever manufactured one itself.
I have 2 PH guns myself and if the barrels are of adequate wall thickness then it may be shootable with low pressure loads. If you haven't shot it for many years a gunsmith should check it out before firing.
Erick

[Jack Cronkhite]

Elmer: The wood is rough. The forend wood has a large piece missing. Without having in hand, I would say the wood, if original, has been sanded and re-varnished and not well sealed in advance. The buttstock wood is unusual. It may be the picture, but it appears there is a deliberate groove at the top of the comb, running toward the butt. Is that the case? Again, if it is original wood, it has been well sanded and sits under the metal in some areas. Original untouched wood sits noticeably proud of the metal. I too am north of the 49th. From what I have seen here over the past two years, values generally are under US prices. I have seen Parker guns in this condition at under $500. If you enjoy shooting doubles, you can likely continue to shoot this one but the advice given by Erik is worth heeding. Double check the chamber length also. You may need 2 1/2 inch ammo - not widely available here but can be found.
Regards,
Jack
Cheers,
Jack

[Elmer Wolochaty]

Erick
Thank you for your promptness. The bluing was my only involvement to the unit and only done to prevent rusting. I don't understand the term - case colors?
It took me a moment to digest your questions and apply them. By using a straight edge the cast would appear to be "O", however when sighting frrom the rear the comb appears to be slightly ofset to the right and the tang does appear straight.
The comb measurement is 1 3/4" and the heel is 2 3/4".
The pull factor is 13 1/2 " to the centre of the butt plate and 14 1/8 to the back of the recoil pad.. with 14" to the butt base and 15 " to the recoil base.
Isn't there a danger of barrel warpage if the sling mounts are installed later? although it does look like the stock sling mount was done later because of the imperfect installation.
I really don't understand the purpose of the barrel protector as it does seem to interfere with sighting down the barrel even though it is made of very thin spring steel.

Thanks again and I'm learning a lot about the gun.

Elmer

[Elmer Wolochaty]

Hello Jack

Thanks for your prompt views and assessment.
Your probably nright about the refinishing of the stock, but as I had indicated to Erick... the blueing was my demise.
I rechecked the gun for the grove you mentioned and there doesn't seem to be any. As for the fore end , I agree that there is a piece missing that was probably done by the sliding barrel protector at some time... at least it seems to relate... and then goes to answer the question if it was a factory addition... which would be "no" as they would have made provisions to eliminate this happening.

Your quite right about the ammo... it's probably a good thing I only used Cannuck heavy load for the upland birds at the time.

Regards


Elmer

[Jack Cronkhite]

Canucks were a favorite of my Dad's and mine as a kid. Imperials were saved for high flying migratory birds. The family VH saw both those shotshells, but my Dad decided for a while to save money with reloads. He had a few leakers and imprecise powder. I'm guessing that is what caused some barrel bulges. Kicking around in the car trunk with other tools saw it get some dents as well. Unfortunately, I blew one of the barrels in 2003. I thought it was likely the bulges and dents (which I had removed) but the collective wisdom on this forum weighs in favor that I had some sort of barrel obstruction on that fateful day. Trying to find a barrel set put me on this forum. No luck on that, just got bit by the Parker bug and have a few new shooters in the safes. I still chase upland birds but no more migratory or big game.
Cheers,
Jack

[Elmer Wolochaty]

Right on Jack.
Canucks were the shooters real dependable standard in those days and the imperials were the high end standards. Back in the early 60's our local hardware suppliers brought in some Italian & Russian shells as a cost saving measure. The Italians weren't bad but the Russian shells were hell! If they fired, which wasn't often, they kicked like hell, smelled like a billy goat and left the bore totally black. In the end you needed a knife or a ram rod to get them out.
At 12 after the war, my first gun was a Parker 12 double that was missing a firing pin, an external hammer and a front face plate. A local gunsmith replaced the pin, fabricated a hmmer and sold me a used front plate, all for $ 7.50...Cost today? I always used imperial L.R. hunting migratory birds, and my farming relatives still use it the same way occasionally.We are either lucky or have a lot of faith in the way it was made,... perhaps both!
My nephew has been after my current Parker & Winchester 94, which has brought me here also. He attends a lot of local gun shows and is into reloading equipment etc, but I do not know his plans about the Parker or if he'll part it out in time.
My only regret is that I didn't find out about this organization long ago.

Elmer

[Jack Cronkhite]

Elmer: Enjoy the site. I only found it a couple years back and it is a good group of folks sharing a common interest. I also have a '94 with octagon barrel. Took my first mule deer in the Porcupine Hills with that gun and a moose in the Waiprous. Iron sights is the way to go in the dense brush. The slow .30-.30 was never sent off course by a twig or two, just "lumbered" through it all to destination. Are you still in the field chasing something these days??
Cheers,
Jack

[Pete Lester]

I still have two full boxes, my father must have hid them from me when I was a teen or they would have been gone. They were on sale, $1.99.

As far as the purpose of the leather hand guard, shoot a round of trap on a hot summer day without it and you'll find out the purpose. I just hold a little lower on the trap house when it's on my gun so I can see the bird leave the trap house without obstruction.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj57/nhshotgunner/100_0755.jpg

[Elmer Wolochaty]

Jack; Hang on to the shells they're a treasure to have now-a-days.
I'm really impressed with this group, and fully intend on passing the word out to all my hunting friends that have computers.
My 94 30-30 was made in 1951 and had seen a lot of use going after grain fed mulies & white tails along the old man & south sask. rivers.... never took any big heads though. Took a young 2 yr old elk in the upper region of the old man river west of the Kananaskis forestry road. That was an experience in its self . I hunted the A-7 country for a time but gave that site up when it got too crowded with hunters. I still hunted till the early 80's for bird and big game and now I just hunt with a camera while enjoying the out doors.
N ow I mostly chase trout, walleye & Pike in the summer and do art paintings in the winter, so at times I still don't have enough hours in the day.... not to mention the computer!

Elmer

[Bill Murphy]

Elmer, your hand guard blocks your sighting plane because it has been put on upside down. Slide it off the muzzle and turn it upside down and slide it back on with the indent for the forend to the rear and the split on the top of the barrels. Now your sight plane will not be obstructed. If the padding is worn to metal on the inside, make sure you protect the barrels from abrasion.

[Elmer Wolochaty]

Huston - we have a problem!... If I do as you suggest, the protector will only slide to the first sling adaptor. .. another indicator that the adaptors were not put on by by the mfg. It's hard to say what the original owner had in mind, other than the fact that the comfort issue of using a sling was in mind. In addition, why 2 sling attachments? Obviously they both had a purpose.
Any thoughts about my recent post under General discussions?

Thanks Bill

[Larry Frey]

Elmer,
If the question to restore or not is based on increasing the monetary value of the gun then I believe the answer would be don't do it as you would never get your money back. There are some things the average person can do to spruce up a gun but the major work, screws, case colors, restocking would need to be done by a professional to give it a real Parker look.

I attached a picture of a documented factory installed swing swivel. Look to see if it is similar to one or both the swivels on you gun. It's my guess one of the previous owners bought the gun with the swivel already on the barrel but needed it moved for comfort or perhaps a longer strap and had another swivel added. Good luck with your gun.