410 conversion

[Nancy Askew]

Hi, I recently aquired a Parker Bros Damascus barrel sxs and the serial # dates it to 1900. the finish on the barrels and reciever look to me to be
85+%. It does not show signs of being refinished. It is a 1 1/2 frame. A #2 in ingraving. I need to find out how much the 410 conversion hurts it value and can they be removed? I am in central California. Not finding enough information on line to help me. Any information will help.

[Dean Romig]

Nancy, the 1 1/2 frame indicates a 12 ga. so the conversion you refer to is likely to be full-length sub-gauge insert tubes, am I correct?

[Dave Suponski]

Francis.....If you re-read Deans post....You will notice the mention of "Full length tubes" As in "Sub gauge"....As in smaller than 12 gauge....:rolleyes:

[Nancy Askew]

the sleeve is only 1/2 way down. that's why i thought i was getting a 12 ga
the hole at the end is 12ga. they also replaced the extractor to reach the 410 round.

[Dean Romig]

OK, those are sub-gauge inserts and are likely removable. However, there is a distinct possibility the bores are so pitted that a previous owner chose to shoot the little .410 shells in it. But the more I think of it the more I wonder why he wouldn't just have used 20 ga. inserts in order to shoot an economical shell. So maybe the bores are okay to shoot 12 ga. loads and he just shot .410 shells part of the time and removed or replaced those inserts with inserts for another gauge or simply shot 12 ga. shells when he wanted to. You should take it to someone who knows how to remove the sub-gauge inserts and then inspect the bores and the wall thickness of the barrels.

[Larry Frey]

Nancy,
The inserts in your Parker are likely similar to the Briley sub gage insert pictured below. If so they should be easily removed but as Dean said be sure to have the barrels examined as the tubes may have been used do to pitting ahead of the chambers.

[Jim Akins]

Nancy, I am in Merced and would be happy to look at your Parker and give you my opinion. My email is james.akins@gmail.com

Jim A.

[Bill Murphy]

The tubes are likely Savage Fourtenners. If you would post a picture of the open breech section we could confirm that. If you can't post a picture, maybe you could email a picture to one of the readers of this thread. OK, about the Fourtenners. They are held in place by O rings. When they are left in place for a long time, the O rings melt in place making the tube nearly impossible to remove. They can also rust in place if they are the steel variety. I recommend you take Mr. Akins up on his offer to help. He is a skilled and honest gun person and will give you good advice. I have removed stuck Fourtenners with a wooden dowel close to bore diameter, pressed forcefully from the muzzle. The muzzle of the Fourtenner is bore diameter and flared at the end, so the dowel must be very close to 12 gauge diameter.

[Nancy Askew]

i have posted pictures of my shotgun. including the chamber area so those who want can take a look at it.

If i have to leave the 410 conversion in what would be a price range i could get for it?
thanks for the help everyone

[Bill Murphy]

Where have you posted these pictures you refer to? OK, I found them. They are in the albums section of this website. What you have is a pair of steel Savage Fourtenners as I earlier described. As you can tell from your pictures from the muzzle of the gun, the muzzles of the Fourtenners are flared so that any dowel or tool you use to push them out has to be very close to the diameter of the 12 gauge barrels. They may push out easily or they may be stuck and be harder to remove. You will want to get them out to properly evaluate the bores of your gun. Additionally, the Savage tubes have value by themselves. Let us know how much luck you have getting the tubes out. I still think you should contact Mr. Akins to assist you if you are at a loss about how to proceed. You don't want to scratch the bores of your Parker with an improper "pusher". A close fitting wooden dowel if the safest tool to use. Sometimes a light tap will dislodge the insert, sometimes a heavier push is needed.

[Bill Davis]

Bill Murphy is right-they are Savage 410 ers and should pop right out. The gun appears to be a totally refinished G Grade with damascus barrels that were blued.

[Dean Romig]

Nancy, you asked for an evaluation on your Parker.

It has been refinished. The ends of the barrels have been either shortened or 'trimmed' and I'm not convinced we're seeing keels under the ribs.
If the bores are decent under those sub-gauge inserts - all things considered, I think you would be fortunate to get $2,000 for it if you find the 'right' buyer.

[Bill Murphy]

Nancy, your gun is heavily refinished in a non original way. The Damascus barrels are blued, which is not correct. The other metal parts have been colored by an unknown method resulting in a non original finish. You must give us barrel length and pictures of the rib at the muzzle so we can determine whether the barrels have been shortened or not. Your gun is not of interest to a Parker collector, unfortunately. The insert tubes are worth about $75. Let us know if you have had success in removing the tubes. Any attempt to bring your gun into a more original condition will just result in more expense and will still not be original. Don't invest more money.

[Marc Retallack]

Perhaps I'm seeing a shadow line from something but the barrels look as though they've been sleeved as well? It's very faint but the joints are in line with the "M" in Damascus.

Cheers
Marcus

[Dean Romig]

By Jove, I think he's right!

[Francis Morin]

Marc may well be right- there is a faint line in line with the M on both barrels in that area- might be fotoflash- but it looks like the reblued barrels in the breech area have a different "sheen?" nice older Parker but some of the marks on the receiver near the engraved ovals seem strange- not being a photographer, I'll leave it at that-

[Bill Murphy]

Nancy, if your magnifier inspection proves the latest revelation correct, your gun has been sleeved with fluid steel tubes, probably by a skilled craftsman, and will probably have excellent bores. See if you can find any markings that may give a clue to the identity of the person who did the work. If no European proof marks, it was probably done in this country, maybe by Frank Lefever and Son in New York, not a bad sleever in most cases. The nearly invisible seam resembles his work.

[Mike Rich]

Hi Nancy, I am Mike. I own a gun appraisal service in Northern California (Sacramento Area) called "This Old Gun", specializing in early American sxs's. My email address is thisoldgun@gmai.com. I would be happy to look at your Parker and give you my opinion.

Good Luck