The Ultimate Duck Gun......

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Several years ago, somebody posted a thread on the old site asking us all to describe the gun we'd order from Parker if we still could. I wrote about two, my duck gun description was:

12 Gauge
DHE
34 inch barrels
#3 Frame
Straight Grip
Splinter Forend
Double Triggers
Silvers Pad
3 inch Chambers

The gun is now leaning against the desk as I type this. Well except for the Silvers pad, the White Line that's on it isn't long for the world though.

Don't know about the chambers yet, haven't got anything to measure them with. They look long......

I've worked on getting this one for two years, sometimes the guns we dream of actually do exist.


Destry

[Russ Jackson]

Destry; Congratulations on your new gun, she sounds like a gem! Its really hard to find exactly what you are looking for, sounds as if this one is right on the money. Where will you take her on the first " Date "?

[Dave Suponski]

Destry,Congratulations! Now let's see some pictures of the "Old Girl"

[Don Kaas]

Welcome to the 34" Club. Our motto is, "Size Matters"...my 34" CHE on its petite #2 frame is back yesterday from Russell's with a re-soldered fore end loop, repaired doll's head and "precision micro-welded" hook to put the old girl back on face. A new straight grip guard has been made and when we are back from Argentina it will go to the stocker with a nice 50 year old piece of crotch figured French walnut...

[Bill Murphy]

Destry, did your new gun come from a Pennsylvania connection or somewhere else. If you care to tell us, thanks. I always thought you would hold out for a six frame.

[scott kittredge]

yes, pics!

[Don Kaas]

Destry had to journey but a few leagues south of his hometown to make his deal in southern Illinois...the price was dear but the value of the fulfillment of a "little" boy's dreams is without measure...when he pries the #3 frame GH 36"10ga/30" 12 ga set from me he will be complete...:bowdown:

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Bill,

Nope, gun came out of Alton, IL actually. A long road trip yesterday to make the deal final but that let me make it a double purpose trip as I'm visiting the folks for a couple days. You were there when I saw it the first time, it was the Southern SxS a couple years ago.

Don,

How dare you suggest I'm from as far north as Alton.

I am from south of I-64, the true Southern Illinois, to me Alton is "up north". *wink*

I got to see the old hotel where Olin gave Mista Nash that presentation Model 21. Russ and I got to look at the gun in Memphis when we were having the Bo-Whoop II vieiwing.



I'll get pics of the gun up as quick as I'm back in Michigan.


Destry

[Jack Lester]

That is just really cool. Good for you Destry. Just goes to show that persistence does pay off. Maybe I gave up on Michelle Pfeiffer too soon, ya think? Jack

[Francis Morin]

It is April 1912- and my first wish would be that Captain Smith had chosen a different course and the RMS Titanic had docked safely in NYC Harbor. My exchange business takes me to the Parker Sales Room in NYC, and in honour of my safe arrival, I order a 12 gauge DHE with, surprise- Titanic Steel barrels-I would "splurge" and get two sets of barrels- one pair 30" Modified and Improved Modified choked with 3" chambers, the second set 32" Improved Modifed and Full, for pass shooting. I would also use the 30" set for pheasants- No 2 size frame, double triggers of course with a slightly larger trigger guard bow for cold weather gloved hand shooting, non-automatic safety, as I would also use this "Old Reliable" for live birds, half pistol grip or Prince of Wales style, solid red Silvers recoil pad, LOP from front trigger 14 and 3/16", 1 & 1/2" DAC, 2 &1/8" DAH, NO cast on or off, and 1 & 1/2" down pitch on the 32" tubes, measured at muzzle with a 90% plumbed door jamb-It sure is fun to dream, isn't it, and the price of admission is quite reasonable.

[King Brown]

Here's what I'd do: go down to one of your shoots and let you take pity on me. I'd say, look, what's a real good gun around here, nothing too fancy but well cared for and used, preferably hammerless in 12 gauge? None of you would let me go home without a good gun. Parkers would appear in different grades and gauges. The first one that fit I'd take it home and choke it Cylinder/IC for ducks over decoys for me and my great black Lab named Jake. A gun without memories is just a gun.

[Kurt Densmore]

I am glad to hear 2 years of hoping and praying payed off. I can't wait to see it in action.

KjD

[Bill Murphy]

If we live long enough, we realize that the Parker of our dreams was also the Parker of someone elses fulfilled dreams many years ago. I found my #3 frame D Grade two barrel set years ago. I had to trade a real nice Smith and Wesson 38/44 Outdoorsman for it. I wonder if someone years ago ordered a 0 frame GHE 16 with three sets of Damascus barrels?

[Derrick Stewart]

Destry,

Is this the gun you were telling be about a few weeks ago? Congrats on the new gun!!! I also look forward to seeing her in person, winter will be here before you know it. Please post some pic's when you can.

[scott kittredge]

bill, i think someone did and you will find it! scott

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Oh yeah, that's very true Bill. These guns are far from new and had seen a lot of service long before most of us were even born. I'm sure Mr. W. Hidden of Providence, RI was real proud of this gun when he bought it back in 1910.

It had it's first shots in anger (with me) this morning and did well. I actually managed to kill the first bird I fired it at. I'm not saying I didn't miss some, several flew off unscathed, but I killed the first one and that made me feel good.

We had a lot of fun there at the grain bins, the birds were pretty thick. It rained on us a bit at first so they flew late but once they started moving it was steady action. We had a couple dozen decoys on the ground and added the dead ones as we shot them. The final count-up was 45 when the smoke cleared, not a bad morning on barn pigeons.



Destry

P.S. to Don: BAND!!!!

P.S. to Derrick: Yup, it's the same gun.

[Marty Kohler]

Destry ............I assume there are 3" nontoxic loads available that are safe for your new piece. Would you share your thoughts on what is available...I am not aware of any........Thanks, Marty

[C Roger Giles]

Destry;

You can fix those pigeons aka squab the same as rail birds, do not forget the garlic and marsalla wine.
BTW it was piegeon shooting that blowed off the end of grandpa's old Remington rabbit eared double.

Rog

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Marty,

The two I have experience with are the Kent Tungsten Matrix shells and bismuth, the new Bismaxx company is doing a 3 inch load. Both are pretty high dollar but I've got a big stock of Kent TM 3 inch that I bought on clearance last year so I'm set for awhile. There's also Hevi-Shot Classic Doubles, I've never tried it but have heard it's good as well. They're not cheap either unforutnately, all three of those are over $3 a shells these days.

There's also a new one on the wind called Tundra that's being loaded by Fiocchi. They're not on the market yet but supposedly will be released by fall. Supposedly will only available as 2 3/4 and 3 inch in 12 gauge the first year. They're claiming the price will be a lot lower than the other stuff that's out there. We shall see.....


Destry

P.S. to Roger: I didn't blow the end off my gun thankfully, it's pretty tough on pigeons with those tight chokes.

[Richard Flanders]

Destry: Maybe I should have saved for you the 8 boxes of 3" Bismuth #2's I cut open for the shot this spring! Too late now.... It pains me to do that but it's cheaper for me than buying the shot... There's still some BBshot 3" at the store I think. Can't imagine anyone has bought them.

[C Roger Giles]

Destry;
In my first reply I omitted to congratulate you on your latest Parker find so consider it said.

Now to some juicy recomendations for this once in a life time find;

You had better contact you old side kick Gerald and run the gun through the PBR/Moonshine proof house, much better to be safe than sorry.

If need be I'll load up some of my favorite loads and express them to you and Gerald for the proofing. I also have some decent strong string for the trigger connection if you have a need for it.

Now to my fourth celebration ala Famous Grouse----Roger in friendship

[Marty Kohler]

Destry, thanks for the reply and info...I have read your remarks about Bismuth and Kent TM before and have used them per your recommendation....thanks, for that....But I don`t remember 3".....I assume that the barrel wall thickness would be larger on 3" chambered guns? If not then what about the increased pressure or do the loads have the same pressure as 2 3/4 loads and if so then you are really just increasing the amount of shot with 3" shells..................... Right? My balistic knowledge is a bit weak to say the least....Your thoughts? Marty (I have also used Nice shot and like that)

[Dave Noreen]

The SAAMI max pressure for both 2 3/4 inch and 3-inch 12-gauge is 11,500.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Marty,

This gun is on the #3 frame which is actually the lighter 10 gauge frame. It's got chamber wall thickness for sure, breeches look like a cannon. I've killed a jillion ducks with 2 3/4 shells but I like to shoot something a little heavier sometimes too. I'm excited to have a 3 inch double, should be a good one for later in the season when the shooting is a little rougher.

Roger,

I'm on my way to visit Gerald in the morning actually. We've got busines.....

Flanders,

If they've got a good price on those 3 inch BB shells, and you don't want them, I'm sure I'd probably take them off their hands.


Regards,
Destry

P.S. Something I failed to mention about the pigeon shoot was that the new duck gun really seems to actually draw in ducks. We were on dry land, nearest water was a couple miles away. We saw a group of birds coming in in the distance and all got ready thinking they were pigeons. When they got closer it turned out to be a flock of young mallards and a single shoveler.

Apparently they'd found the waste grain around the storage bins just like the pigeons had. They made about four swings trying to get in there, all plenty close enough to shoot, but we didn't of course. We weren't hidden quite well enough for ducks so they never landed but they sure tried. Take a duck gun to a pigeon shoot and apparently you get ducks anyway. I took it as a good sign for things to come with the new gun.

Hopefully we'll see them again opening weekend. Unfortunately, the State of Illinois, in their infinite wisdom, has decided that the Thanksgiving weekend opening day wasn't a good idea. We just heard the season in Southern Illinois opens two weekends earlier as of this season, the middle of November rather than at the end. Hopefully I'm able to make it home for it.

[Francis Morin]

Destry- great stuff indeed. If you grew up South of I-64 does that mean you could get grits and cathead bisquits with red-eye gravy for breakfast? You are indeed what the Spanish would call a "Rey Del Mundo Hombre" - King of the World Man- with all the trips to Beaver Dam and your interest in the life and gunning experiences of the true "Shootin'ist Gent'man" T.N. Buckingham.

My major references for the research question I am posing are: The Best of Nash Buckingham by George Bird Evans 1973 Winchester Press, and Mr. Buck, The Autobiography of Nash Buckingham- edited by Dr. Dryk Halstead and Steve Smith 1990 beaver Dam Press.

The second book I listed details on page 249 "Presentation of 1962 OUTDOORSMAN Of The YEAR Award- To Nash Buckingham By Lowell E. Kreig ---- Lockhaven Country Club, Alton, Illinois. No mention of a hotel in Alton. Is it possible there was a hotel there prior to the building of the Country Club?

Back to the G.B. Evans book, in the forward from Nash's close friend John M. Olin "If a man ever found the fountain of youth, it was Nash Buckingham. I remember how he looked that night of January 18, 1963, at the Lockhaven Country Club at Alton, Illinois----

You have seen and handled the M21 Duck 12 bore- "The Award Gun"- As this is a Parker Forum, not a Winchester Forum, we'll let that pass, ditto the possible interest in the whereabout of both his Becker-Fox magnums.

One thing I will never quite understand is why the Game Agent needed to check Nash's first Becker "Bo-Whoop" back in Dec. 1948. If Nash had been shooting a pump or an autoloader; certainly, for the Federal mandated 3 shot plug, but a double- not needed.

On barn pigeons, my favorite target awing (as MI will never have a legal dove season in our lifetimes) where did you find pigeon decoys? I use dove decoys, have also seen pigeons drop in my crow decoys in the snowy cornfields in late winter-early spring. I've also used the old Indian trick of propping up dead pigeons on corn shocks for "foolies"

A retired MI State Vet. taught me the "tender-taste-test" for pigeons: Squeeze the deceased bird with your fingers straddling the rib cage- if the rib bones spring back, it is a squab or a young bird, and will be tasty. If not, it is a old-timer and feed it to your cat.

I baste the filleted breasts with olive oil and coarse pepper and like with teal and wood-duck, grill on a hot charcoal fire-maybe 2-3 minutes per side-mighty tasty, not quite as good as dove, but a close second.

I'll possibly have some more paper 10 gauge 2 & 7/8" Remingtons by the next MI side-by shoot at Lapeer, Sat. July 18th. Hope to see you there.

[Richard Flanders]

I'll check Destry. The ones I got had a 2-3(or older?)yr old price on them. $21.49/box I think it was. I took everything but the BB shot and I think they were 3". You want them if they're only 2.75"? For that price it would be worth it for geese. Wish we had some pigeons up here I could keep current on. We have them but they're downtown. My dog training friends get to trap them but no one shoots them.

[John Truitt]

Destry,
That sounds like a great gun. What does she weigh? Last 34" #3 frame 12 dhe I saw was 10 lbs 8 oz. Shoot em up. The long barrels are great.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

John,

Wish mine was that heavy actually, but she only comes in at about 9 pounds.

I'll post some pics this week if I can get caught up after this 4 day weekend I took.


Destry

[Bill Murphy]

Destry, my old #3 frame 12, according to the letter, not actual weight, was 8 pounds 7 ounces with 32" barrels and 8 pounds, 4 ounces with the 28" barrels. This sounds strange, but the long barrels are only 30", not 32" as the stock book says. That explains the small weight difference. The 30" barrels are marked 4-14. It's a neat old gun and has an Infallible trigger that works just fine.

[Fred Preston]

Bill, My 0 frame 20ga VHE two bbl. set (32" and 28") is even more at odds. the gun with the 32"s is about 3 oz. less than with the 28"s. The gun balances at the same point and swings similarly with either set.

[Bill Murphy]

Fred, is the reversed three ounce difference actual weight or marked weight? That is strange.

[Fred Preston]

Bill, That's actual weight. Each set is marked 3/8. It's #190872 and there appear to be no surviving records. It's safetyless with a Parker SST. The long barrels have 3" chambers and are choked tight. The short barrels are a later addition as they are marked with the Parker Proof and are choked a light IC/Mod. I have used 1oz 2&3/4 laods on pheasant with effect in the long barrels, but I wouldn't use any modern 3"ers in it.

[Pete Lester]

If anyone else was lusting after a 3 frame 12ga DHE one has appeared on Gunbroker:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=133395098

[Bill Murphy]

In that serial number range, I'm not sure that the guy isn't mistaking the grade stamp for a frame size stamp.

[Ed Blake]

Fred - I don't see a safety on that gun? Is there one there or can I not see it?

[Fred Preston]

Ed, No safety. Do you think someone wanted a 20ga pigeon gun?

[Ed Blake]

Very cool gun Fred. Maybe it was someone's bird gun and was carried unloaded on horseback a la NB. You have a letter on that one?

[Fred Preston]

No. No records available.

[Rich Anderson]

Destry congrats on the new toy. I saw that gun at the Southern and you agonizing over its adoption to Michigan. Did you make your trade or was it an outright purchase?

Yould be proud of me my last two Parkers have been 12's. Now I need to find a DHE 32in vent rib 12 and the set will be complete.

Don it seems resoldering the forend loop is in voge as Russ has the same job to perform on my CHE 20. My smith called and the D grade hammer gun has been bent to my specifications and all turned out well. I'll pick her up tomorrow and give her a run Sunday.

[Jess Lee]

Sweet sounding gun. At 9 pounds she should swing like a dream.

[C Roger Giles]

Resoldering a forend lug is a rather simple job as I had to do it on my GH 12 a coupla years ago.

Roger

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Rich,

I traded for it, finally made the deal I'd proposed two years ago at the Southern.

Jess,

It does swing like a dream, I've been picking it up and shouldering it every time I walk anywhere near it since I brought it home. *laughs*


Destry

[John Truitt]

Destry,
Whats the unstruck barrel weight?
The 34" ers are great guns. I havent meet one yet I didnt like or fall in love with.
Now you need to find yourself a nice 36 "er.
How about some pics when you get the time.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

John,

The unstruck weight mark is 5-2.

I shot a round of trap and then a round of skeet with it this morning. Seems to fit me like a dream but my trap score was abysmal.

The skeet score wasn't bad, an 18 I think, and with a 9 pound full and full gun I'll take it every time.

Some of the boys at the club like old guns and are always interested in what I'm shooting. When they asked what I was going to shoot first with the new gun, I said it didn't matter, I could shoot either one just as poorly.

I'm always on the lookout for something with longer barrels but this one will sure do till the 36 inch model comes along.


Destry

[Francis Morin]

Sounds a bit like our mutual gunning hero- T. Nash Buckingham- in his "Are we shooting 8 gauge guns- he recalls a 1928 "Baptism to the Wm. H. Foster clays sport" at the Campfire Club in NY with Colonel Harold P. Sheldon and Captain Paul Curtis- to shoot 98 out of 100 with a "cannon" like Bo Whoop- 32" Full and Full Burt Becker/Fox/Sweeney 12 bore-

Never have been a clays man, prefer live birds, especially pigeons. Years ago when I acquired a "Non-Parker Trap Gun" so to speak, we would use such tightly choked shotguns for a game we called "Full Choke Skeet"- everything was "Jake" until the middle peg, as Nash even said "Such an incoming shot in the quail field would be foolish- you would pulp the bird and make it unfit for the table" or words to that effect. I might have averaged 20-21 at that "altered" skeet game in my way younger days. not now for sure.

[Bill Murphy]

I don't recall that Colonel (Whelen) was mentioned as an attendee at the Campfire Club skeet outing, doubt that he ever set foot on a skeet field. However, the little Bob Owen 20 gauge that Captain Curtis was shooting that day apparently came up at auction last year without any mention in the auction catalog about its provenance. Someone got a rare and sweet little gun but the new owner may still not be aware of its interesting history. Colonel Whelen did own at least one shotgun that I am aware of. It was a try gun that was used by the stockmakers in his Washington, D.C. gun store, Parker-Whelen. Two of those stockmakers were in rarified territory in the woodworking world. They were the famous Griffin and Howe stockers James Howe and John Hutton. The old try gun has had a rough yet productive life, but is still in good shooting condition and gets out a couple of times a year.

[Don Kaas]

I was Col. Harold Sheldon who had the Owens 20g gun and shot skeet with Paul Curtis and TNB. On their way back to D.C. they shot pigeons at my Club as guests of Eltinge Warner, publisher of Field & Stream.

[Bill Murphy]

Both Curtis and Sheldon had Owen 20 gauges. It was Curtis' gun that was sold last year. Welcome back, Don, sorry I missed you this weekend.

[Francis Morin]

You, Sir, are correct. I went from memory on the Col.s question as to whom was with with Capt. Curtis and TNB back in 1928, at least I got the rank correct-had plenty of opportunity to salute both the "Light" and the "Full Bird" gentleman of that 0-5 and 0-6 stature in my years in the USMC.

Sort of recalls the words of wisdom from Casey "Stinky" Stengel, former manager of the Yankees, later the Mets: "You can always look it up in the book". I had loaned my copy of the GBE "The Best of Nash Buckingham" (there was never anything but the BEST from that fine Southern Gent'man) to a friend, who just returned it. Nash had class, and first-rate manners afield, respect for ladies and was a story teller from who laid the rail.

I have heard stories about Elt Warner at Field and Stream, believe he preceeded Ray P. Holland, another one of my legendary gunning heroes. Have also read stories about the "tree huggers" and "Green Peacers" trying to close down the storied Philadelphia Gun Club, and I hope you can prevail against their ill-founded attempts to close your Club.

One of my married sisters lives near Valley Forge, we were there recently after a 3 day visit at Gettysburg, then on to Ocean City, MD. to visit another sister.

\Valley Forge looks a bit different now than it did in 1954 with the Boy Scout Trip, great country, so close to Philadelphia, yet so remote. Toured the Eisenhower Farm; Ike had a skeet field there, and except for one shotgun in a glass case (an Italian mfg. autoloader perhaps) all his Winchester 42 .410's and his doubles, except for his Winchester M21 20 bore which apparently resides in The Olde Dominion, also his Granger fly rods, are on display at his Museum in Abeline Kansas, according to the Curator present to whom I posed this series of sporting equipment related question.

[C Roger Giles]

I have a copy of a letter that I copied from the original that was sent to RG Owen from Mr. Curtis remarking of Owen's fine workmanship. RG's son has the original.

Also have a copy of a letter that Kermit Roosafelt (sp) sent to RG Owen commenting on his fine workmanship he did on his rifle.

Roger

BTW I tried to give Destry an extra copy I have of both letters but he ignores me on this generousity.

[Francis Morin]

Roger- I would very much like to see this letter, if you would be so kind as to post a copy here, or perhaps submit it for a later issue of Parker Pages. The late Captain Paul A. Curtis, also Van Campen Heilner, were two of my favorite gunning/hunting authors from the 1930's, and I treasure the copies of their books I own. I recently heard a rumor that Captain Curtis died by his own hand in 1945-46, which saddens me greatly. He set the standard for manners afield with his words "The Field Is The Touchstone Of The Man"!!

[Bill Murphy]

Regretfully, the annual shoot at the Eisenhower farm has been cancelled indefinitely due to concerns about lead contamination. It was last held probably in 2006. Ike's 20 gauge Model 21 is safe at the National Firearms Museum in Virginia.

[Kenny Graft]

Dream...dream.......dream dream...!!! Satisfaction is in your deams...(-:

[Dean Romig]

Probably the best compilation of sporting dog stories I have ever read.

[C Roger Giles]

Gentlemen; The Curtis I am refering to in a prior post is of Field and Stream magazine. I believe Paul Curtis is another outdoor writer/author person.

Sorry for the confusion; Roger

[Greg Franklin]

Congratulations on that gun! If it had a sister, I'd take her....... Life is truely short; it is nice to be able to satisfy some of our desires. Enjoy.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Greg,

If she had a sister I'd do my best to make it a menage a trois. *wink*

Destry