common things to look out for when buying a sbt

[bob kuczynski]

before I die, I will own a sbt. I kick myself when I think of the a-1's I had dibbs on back in 1994, but I passed on them.
they were so nice, odds are I would have bought them blindly.

and its for that reason I thought of this topic.

anyone care to list what a first time buyer should look for, before buying a sbt?

here we go............

[Dean Romig]

Originality, originality, originality... oh, and condition.






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[bob kuczynski]

ok lets run with this.....

if you wanted a sbt to well...shoot trap, why is originality important?
now of course, if the stock is a 12" lop and someone etched his name in it, I can see how a collector would go insane, but if a sbt is a sbt, what would be some specific issues to look for...where resale becomes a moot point?
its been my observation you find honest people selling them at a low market to match the low quality or non-originality. and sometimes you find those who jack them because they don't know any better.
point? if its been restocked but done well, no issue. if the wood was replaced, but is high grade? ok.
im more interested in say trigger types, common aftermarket things, mismatched parts, screws, wrong blueing, etc etc...
what seems to be the most common things people who buy them change out to make a little better, once they have them for a while and realize a little tweek would make it perform that much nicer??
and being these guns are older, what are the things that break most often?

[Dean Romig]

Okay - I see where you're coming from. No offense intended but, I'm not in that camp so I can't address those issues you bring up as not being significant to you.


Have you considered a BT-99?






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[bob kuczynski]

none taken.
im just too old to just look at guns the rest of my life. I want to shoot them and experience the joy of a well built gun.

[David Holes]

We have 4 at our gun club now. I shoot an original with nice condition. Points and shoots great, has a very nice xfull choke. 2nd sbt is original , but had to add a spacer because slightly cut down stock, it also shoots great. 3rd sbt was less money and has wood changed out to custom wood is well worn and shoots ok. 4th was less money with a replaced stock but original forend, that shoots very nice, and I picked up an original stock to replace custom stock with. All that being said, they all are great trap guns, the original wooded guns perform equally as well as modified guns. I paid the most and have the highest condition of all 4 and do believe that you should buy the best sbt that you can afford. All 4 guns are varing degrees of condition, and all 4 guns will shoot great scores.

[bobutler]

Bob: Look down through these threads. I picked up an early SBT - might be one of the first from some comments - that had been re-stocked and the barrel sleeved from some catastrophic event sometime in its life. So from a collector's standpoint, it might be close to worthless. I posted pictures under my thread there. I think it is gorgeous and it is a blast to shoot with tight choke and 32" barrel.

When I was looking, I remember comments about the ejector timing being an issue that would require a good, experienced gunsmith. Of course these guns were made to shoot a lot, so that's probably why mine was re stocked - wood may have been busted all to heck. But someone took the time and expense to bring it back to grand form at least from a shootability standpoint. I won't be shooting it in competition, just for fun.

[Jeff Christie]

Bob- buy a Parker SBT that fits you well. Then try to wear it out shooting trap. You won't. You will learn the gun quickly and enjoy it more and more every time you use it. You probably won't change a thing ever. Lastly let your heirs worry about what to do with it.

When were you with the Navy marksmanship team? I shot at Camp Perry for about 10 years 99-09, and learned a lot from the "big teams." Great gals and guys. I'm a retired USAF guy.

[Jeff Christie]

Bob- I forgot-- join PGCA! Best money you'll spend shooting. Jeff

[bob kuczynski]

odds are I wont wear it out. I just don't want to get someones gun who did wear it out and hot potato'ed it to me.
im sure we've all been there once or twice.

[bob kuczynski]

jeff, I was with the shooting teams 92-97. east coast.
legged out on pistol before I retired.

[Mills Morrison]

This is more applicable to Parkers in general, but I look for soundness of the stock, barrels original length and not cut and no mechanical problems.

[bob kuczynski]

what are some common issues on a sbt?

[Fred Lauer]

I bought mine at an indoor auction with the normal crappy lighting, but I did note that it had been converted from straight grip to full pistol grip. Some might have passed on it but the work was so well done that it's not only hard to see the wood splice but the checkering is flawless though different than factory. The giveaway was no ser. no. on the trigger guard and an unmarked grip cap. It also had the ejector blocked which I view as a plus for a reloader. The really important things to me was that the barrel and choke be unmodified and the gun fit me. The fore end wood seems to have a tendency to crack on them, I've seen it on guns other than mine. Thankfully mine has a good solid repair that is also hard to see, that I suspect was done by the same hand as the grip change. I've only put 4000 or so rounds through mine but no hiccups yet.

[Phil Yearout]

I bought mine for short money with a cut barrel because I'd never have had one otherwise. Not a good reason for a serious trap shooter or a collector (this gun is not one for either, and I am neither) but it will break targets when I do my part and I have had a lot of fun with it. Someday maybe I'll stumble upon a replacement barrel, but if not, that's OK. We have a deal: I don't point out her shortcomings, and she doesn't mention mine. There's a couple of pics in my "Just Stuff" album.

[bob kuczynski]

how do most bores look these days on them? is pitting common?

[WmRike]

That's an interesting question about the pitting. Based on the trap guns of that era that I have and have seen, I'm gong to say no. My conjecture is that people that bought these guns shot better (smokeless) ammo and had enough pride to maintain the things.

I would venture to say that the biggest problems arise from the amateur gunsmiths that wanted to disassemble the thing just to see what it looked like inside (what were those screws there for, anyway?), or who thought they could improve a sear somewhere.

[Fred Lauer]

The bore is very clean in mine but it has some discolor in the chamber. I've noticed that in other trap guns of the 1920-30 era and I'd just attribute it to the volume of paper cases run through it over the years. No primer pitting at all in the bore.

[Bill Murphy]

I bought my first one in 1973 and have been buying them since. I have never bought a bad one and I don't own a bad one.

[bob kuczynski]

a big concern of mine is that on average, a sb trap gun will be opened more often than a sbs or an o&u. im most concerned about side play or loose lock up with truniun wear.(sp)

[Dean Romig]

That should rarely be a problem if cleaned and lubricated properly and often enough.






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[Jeff Christie]

I always try to smear a minute amount of grease (RIG, vasoline, etc) on the hook when ever I assemble it. Push a patch with any good solvent through the barrel, wipe it off after shooting, she will never let you down. I don't have access to a gunsmith without having to trust the UPS or the Postal Service to ship to a gunsmith I'd trust to disassemble it for cleaning.

[James L. Martin]

If you never shot trap with a SBT you will be surprised how good they shoot and move, I have a Ithaca 4E that I shoot trap with but am always on the look out for a Parker. My 4E was made in 1924 and all I did when I bought it was replace the recoil pad and a good cleaning.

[Randy Davis]

You might want to find a copy of Frank Conley`s book on American Single Barrel Trapguns. I have collected American SBT`s for the last 20 years or so. As a collector I would look for condition and originality.

There are many different single barrels from which to choose. If you are thinking vintage, a nice Ithaca 4e or 5e Knick guns are great values today. Parker C grade very nice SBT, a little harder to find.

There are alot of the vintage guns that have been well maintained. Most have had the recoil pads changed. Most will have 32" barrels. Might be a good idea to mic the bore and choke, Of the ones that I have
checked have not been altered... Hope this is of some value.

Trap3

[Jim McKee]

I agree-find a copy of Frank Conley`s book on American Single Barrel Trapguns.
Excellent collection of information concern all the period SBTs.
Jim

[bob kuczynski]

what were the most common pads used on those sbt's from the period? I know some co's sell retro pads. if I had to replace a rotted one, which would you use?

[Dave Suponski]

Bob, Hawkins pads were listed as standard from the factory.

[Bill Murphy]

Ithaca Knicks were normally fitted with the Ithaca "Sunburst" pad. Parkers were commonly fitted with a Silver pad or a Hawkins pad. The Hawkins with the straight vents was not normally used. A repro Silver, as sold by Griffin and Howe, is the pad I have used for a long time on large butt guns.

[Randy Davis]

Original Hawkins on Parker SC, pic #1

Original Silvers(100+years old hard as a rock) 1st variation Baker SBT, pic#2

Original Hawkins on Baker Elite SBT, pic#3

Original Ithaca Sunburst Pad, pic#4

Trap3

[Randy Davis]

what were the most common pads used on those sbt's from the period?


Here are a couple more recoil pads used on vintage SBT`s...
These are original Jostams Mfg. HY-GUN and ANTI-FLINCH...

Trap3

[Steve McCarty]

what were the most common pads used on those sbt's from the period? I know some co's sell retro pads. if I had to replace a rotted one, which would you use?

My SC SBT no. 177xxx came with a crumbled, crusty Silver's Pad which I replaced with a new one. Perfect bore. Some one had stored it in a cheap plastic zippered case which held moisture and it rusted. When I first saw the gun all of the metal parts had turned orange. Luckily the rust came right off with soft rubbing with 4x and light oil. Had to have the barrel latch spring replaced. Beautiful wood, beaver tail forearm which I think is a factory replacement because the color doesn't match the stock very well. Straight grip with a chip out that runs along the lower tang. Patterns high, as it should. Perfect balance and she swings sweet as can be.

[Gary Cripps]

Looking for advice or a correct pad. I was lucky to pick up a nice early (1918) SBT about a year ago. The fellow I bought it from had replaced the pad himself (poorly) just before selling it. I have been looking for a pad since buying the gun without success. I finally ordered one from Connecticut Shotgun and got it over to my smith. He called today to say it couldn't be fitted. The vent slots were too close to the top and bottom ends. Only an 1/8 " of material would be left after fitting and this he said would not hold up. I called Connecticut and they said they only had this one size available. Is there another source or another brand that would be appropriate for this vintage gun?

[Gary Cripps]

The above pad I ordered was a Hawkins which I thought correct.

[Bill Murphy]

In 1918, a solid red Silver pad would be more correct, and would not have problems like you experienced.

[Phil Yearout]

Orphan Annie wears a Horseshoe Brand pad and a Plexiglas spacer. I think they're period correct...as long as the period is the '50's or '60's :rotf:!

https://i.imgur.com/dMtvDccm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/1oXejt4m.jpg (https://imgur.com/1oXejt4)

[Steve McCarty]

When I bought my SBT 20 plus years ago from a family friend I had no idea about them. I bought the gun $1500 because it was a Parker. It's an early SC and I've shot it a bunch. It was pretty well worn, but the bore is nice and so is the wood. Straight stock. I can't think of anything specifically to look for when buying one. If you find one, unless it is trashed, buy it.

[Tom Flanigan]

Originality, originality, originality... oh, and condition.






.t

I'm on Dean's side of the fence with this one. I guess I am an originality bigot. Refinished guns are ok if they are done properly. I just like all the parts of a Parker gun to be totally Parker. It's a fetish.

[John Davis]

I'd say fit, fit, fit. I buy trap guns to shoot, not look at. Although I really do like to look at them. Alterations don't bother me as long as the gun fits me. But that's just me.

[Thomas Billeter]

a big concern of mine is that on average, a sb trap gun will be opened more often than a sbs or an o&u. im most concerned about side play or loose lock up with truniun wear.(sp)

My first post. I just bought a SBT and shot it the first time today. It's a 1936 gun by the sn and although the wood and metal are nice on the outside the action was very stiff due to not having been cleaned in forever.

I cleaned it up some and took it out this morning. The gun has a release trigger as do my other trapguns. I stopped at the pattern board first and at 30 yards the gun shoots a dense probably 60/40 full choke pattern.

Everything seems to work well. The release lever was about neutral and after 3 rounds is left of center and the action needs to be closed smartly before firing. Does anyone know who would be a good gunsmith to take a look at it? I've had Phillips do work for me in the past and he was first to come to mind.

The other thing that I noticed when cleaning it was that the extractor/ejector screw was loose. Snugged it up and it worked fine to this point. Might be worth a drop of blue locktight?

Any information you oldtimers can provide would be appreciated.

Thanks, Tom

[Bill Murphy]

Bob K., Parker trap guns do not have "trunnions". Some trap guns, such as Berettas and Perazzis, have trunnions, but Ithacas, Foxes and Parkers do not. They have a lug with a circular recess that revolves around a hinge pin. Side play is not usually a problem, but wear to the locking lug surfaces is sometimes a problem. Such a problem is easily fixed by a competent gunsmith, if you can find such a thing.