SBT # 181261

[Gary Cripps]

A few months back an old classmate and I were discussing Parkers. He has a SBT with some good local history. It once belonged to a local gun shop / feed store owner. This is where I and a buddy spent our lunch hours making sure his guns were well appreciated. He was always good natured knowing when we were old enough he would make a sale.
My classmate wouldn't consider selling his SBT at this time. He had a pair of Parker stocks he asked if I could sell and I did.

Three days ago the classmate gives a call. There is another SBT in town. It made yearly trips to Vandalia with the father of the current owner, my classmates father and the gun shop / feed store owner and it was for sale. The current owner turns out to be my third cousin. I see him now and again--we just never talked guns. There was a call, a meeting this morning and a new SBT owner.

A letter is next then we will see what other stories the gun will tell.

[Mark Riessen]

I love it. Tell us more when you find out anything. Mark

[Jim Pasman]

Congratulations, Gary! I love spending Sundays at "Trap Mass" with my SBT

[Brian Dudley]

Wow... A unmolested original buttstock! Good find!

[Paul Ehlers]

Great Story. Congrat's on the new addition.

[Pat Dugan]

How long are the barells, a super find. I have one myself
And I have shot an ata trap staight and several
Close straights on wobble trap, you will be addicted
To trap shooting

[Gary Cripps]

Thanks All
The barrels are 34". The pad is a late replacement white line and will be corrected when I can find the right one. I will post a copy of the letter when it arrives.
Gary

[dubose vann]

I also own a parker SBT with the 34" barrel
I inherited it from my father after he passed and he's got it from my Grandmothers brother
I'm wanting to shoot it even though it's a 100 year old gun
It still locks up tight

[Dean Romig]

So shoot it...





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[dubose vann]

The only thing I'm not sure of is to either use high or low brass shot shells and what size dram weight to run though it

[John Davis]

1 oz. or 1 1/8 oz., 2 3/4 drams equivalent. 1145 to 1180 fps. That's all you need for 16 yard singles or handicap out to 23-24 yards.

[Bill Murphy]

So Gary, can you post a copy of the letter and a picture of the new recoil pad?

[Dean Romig]

You can use any of the commercial trap or target loads. No need to shoot anything heavy but the gun will probably take them, depending on it’s condition. The vast majority of SBT’s we see have been pretty well taken care of.





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[Brian Dudley]

High and low brass does not mean a thing.

That gun should be able to digest any 2-3/4” target load that you want to shoot.

[Gary Cripps]

Lost track of this post, sorry. Here is the letter and some additional information that I appreciate.

[Bill Murphy]

You, or someone, put a great pad on your gun. My first SC, 1917 gun, has a Griffin and Howe repro Silver pad. It looks like you may have the same pad, but more likely an original Silver. Beautiful. Some day, I will put a leather face on mine. The owner of your gun was an over the top professional, with higher averages than the best shooters in Washington at the time, names left out until I can confirm the spelling. I am not able to determine for whom Reid shot, could be Parker since W.F. Parker ordered his gun. I will post the shooting records for Reid in a later post. What a great gun with great provenance.

[Bill Murphy]

OK, here goes. Your shooter, L.H. Reid, shot on both sides of the purchase of the gun, I haven't determined how far before and how far after. Every year I researched, he was listed as a professional.

1916, shot 2740, broke 2603. 95.07 average

1917, shot 3460, broke 3364. 97.22 average

1918, shot 2130, broke 2079. 95.72 average

1920, shot 3920, broke 3747. 94.86 average

In 1914, Mr. Reid was high average professional in the country with a 96.44. I can't say much more than that. Your gun was in good hands. The next step is to find out who he shot for. My 1922 book shows his address, which I will post later.

[dubose vann]

Thank you all for the info
Need to find me some range time for it

[Tom Flanigan]

[QUOTE=Brian Dudley;263801]High and low brass does not mean a thing.

It actually does mean something to those of us who have been hunting for more than 50 years or so. High brass shells were those heavy hunting loads manufactured by the various loading companies. A heavy 12 bore load, with the high brass typical of these cartridges, generally were loaded with 1 1/4 oz. of shot and 3 3/4 drams equivalent or, as is currently defined, a load of 1300+ fps. A typical low brass 12 bore load had a shorter brass base and was generally loaded with an ounce or 1 1/8 oz. of shot at 3 drams equivalent or about 1200 fps.

Hence, the term high and low brass accurately defined what one could expect from factory cartridges with respect to the loading. It’s a general term, but is somewhat useful when referring to factory loaded shells. I load all my own shells, but I would imagine that even today, if I bought a box of Remington Express shotshells, I would find that they were loaded in high brass cases. Conversely, if I bought a box of target loads, I’m sure the shells would have low brass.

Higher brass is no longer needed for maximum loads since plastic and stronger cases have eliminated the need to add to the strength of maximum loaded cases. From a marketing perspective, I don’t believe we’ll see the elimination of higher brass on heavy factory loads any time soon.

[Bill Murphy]

ATA rules in the early days allowed 1 1/4 ounces of shot. I don't know when that changed to 1 1/8 ounces, but a 1917 Parker single obviously digested thousands of rounds of 1 1/4 ounce loads without significant damage. My 1922 PHE trap gun was used on pigeons until I purchased it. It had probably shot almost nothing other than 1 1/4 ounce loads for its entire life until the 1990s when I purchased it. It is still very tight and on face. By the way, the earliest NSSA rule books allowed 1 1/4 ounce loads for skeet competition. Fortunately, that didn't last long.

[Jerry Harlow]

Is it still 15" l.o.p.? Must have been a big man.

[Bill Murphy]

L.H. Reid shot similar or higher scores than very famous amateur Frank Troeh and equally famous professionals Al Riehl and F.C. Riehl, also Washington shooters. L.H. Reid lived at 1903 3rd Street, Seattle in 1922 and at 1211 2nd Street North, Seattle in 1925. Troeh was listed as an amateur in those years, but I believe he worked as a professional in later years. By the way, Jerry, my 1917 SC is a 15" gun also and letters that way.

[Tom Flanigan]

ATA rules in the early days allowed 1 1/4 ounces of shot. I don't know when that changed to 1 1/8 ounces, but a 1917 Parker single obviously digested thousands of rounds of 1 1/4 ounce loads without significant damage. My 1922 PHE trap gun was used on pigeons until I purchased it. It had probably shot almost nothing other than 1 1/4 ounce loads for its entire life until the 1990s when I purchased it. It is still very tight and on face.


Bill. I do know that the 1 1/4 oz. 12 bore load was the standard trap loading long ago. But I believe it was generally loaded at 3 1/4 dram equivalent (around 1200 fps) and not the 3 3/4 dram equivalent (+1300 fps) that is typical for heavy factory hunting loads. In my opinion, the 1200 fps, 1 1/4 oz. load is the optimum load for a 12 bore. It patterns beautifully out of my guns and I have used it for years on waterfowl and turkeys. It's the only load I use for hunting with a 12 bore. If you are going to carry a heavier 12 bore for longer range shooting you might as well use a 12 bore load in it.

The 1200 fps 1 1/4 load is a whole different animal than the 1300+ loading, in my opinion. It is a comfortable load to shoot and after comparing the results of using both loads on Saskatchewan waterfowl, I am absolutely convinced that the 1200 fps load is the better of the two. I tried hard to be totally objective in my comparison of the two loads on waterfowl and I became convinced that I had more dead in the air kills with the 1200 fps load. Maybe a longer shot string of the 1300 load had something to do with it, I don’t know. But I do know that my testing was extensive with a lot of kills to compare in the evaluation. I do two weeks in Saskatchewan and I pound the waterfowl day after day on their breeding and staging areas. My opinion is based on actual experience and, I trust, objectivity. No theory or armchair musings here.

[Randy Davis]

ATA rules in the early days allowed 1 1/4 ounces of shot. I don't know when that changed to 1 1/8 ounces, but a 1917 Parker single obviously digested thousands of rounds of 1 1/4 ounce loads without significant damage. My 1922 PHE trap gun was used on pigeons until I purchased it. It had probably shot almost nothing other than 1 1/4 ounce loads for its entire life until the 1990s when I purchased it. It is still very tight and on face. By the way, the earliest NSSA rule books allowed 1 1/4 ounce loads for skeet competition. Fortunately, that didn't last long.

Looked in a program from 1937 Interstate Shoot at Elliott`s Shooting Park,
Shell Rules... 3 1/4dr 1 1/4oz 7 1/2

In another Interstate program from 1941 ATA shell rules had changed to:
3dr 1 1/8oz 7 1/2... So sometime between those years.

Example of a premium Trap Load from the 20`s and 30`s
Western Super Trap 3 1/4 1 1/4 7 1/2

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[Bill Murphy]

That's one beautiful shell.

[Randy Davis]

That's one beautiful shell.
Bill...

A couple more variations of the Western Super Trap shell...

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[Dean Romig]

So, unless I'm missing something, there were both high-brass and low-brass Super Trap Loads with the same loadings?





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[Randy Davis]

[QUOTE=Dean Romig;264971]So, unless I'm missing something, there were both high-brass and low-brass Super Trap Loads with the same loadings?


Western offered "Trap Loads" in 3dr. 3 1/8dr. 3 1/4dr. The Super Trap Lubaloy advertised for Handicap Shooting available in 3dr. 3 1/8dr. and 3 1/4dr. I`m guessing the high brass was used as flyer load, available in #7 shot...

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[Dean Romig]

So I can presume the heavier 3 1/4 dram loads used exclusively the high-brass shells and the other two used low-brass?





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[Randy Davis]

[QUOTE=Dean Romig;264975]So I can presume the heavier 3 1/4 dram loads used exclusively the high-brass shells and the other two used low-brass?


Dean,

I would agree the heavier 3 1/4 was high brass... But I have several examples of the Super Trap Handicap Load that are 3dr and 3 1/8dr high brass shell. The photo with the low brass and high brass shells are 3dr handicap loads...

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