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View Full Version : Chuck H.: BT vs Splinter pics


Joe Bernfeld
03-23-2010, 02:20 PM
I sure like posting pics here; nice to be able to do it from my files. The beavertail in the pics is from my 28 ga, the splinter is from my 20 ga. Sorry I don't have 2 of the same ga :rolleyes:.
Joe

Chuck Heald
03-23-2010, 03:06 PM
Joe,
Thanks much for the pics. Can you take a side profile of both nose to nose? A measurement from the top of the iron (near side to barrels) to the forward tip of the latch on the bottom (hand side) of the forend, would be helpful.

Joe Bernfeld
03-23-2010, 06:26 PM
Joe,
Thanks much for the pics. Can you take a side profile of both nose to nose? A measurement from the top of the iron (near side to barrels) to the forward tip of the latch on the bottom (hand side) of the forend, would be helpful.

If you mean measure the thickness of the metal parts at the latch, it's not really possible to do that without removing the forend metal from the wood. The wood on the beavertail is considerably deeper of course, since it wraps quite a ways up the sides of the barrels.
Joe

Paul Ehlers
03-23-2010, 09:10 PM
Chuck,
I've looked at your post over on doublegun and these pictures should answer one of your questions about the BT forend iron & latch.

The main difference in the two forend irons is the beavertail has the extra support rod/screw that runs down the rib channel. Look closely at the top view of the two together and you can see an extension of the beavertail iron for the thread boss that the support screw interfaces with.

I've seen several after market BT's that have been broken for the lack of the extra support.

Dave Fuller
03-23-2010, 09:29 PM
I once owned two, two-barrel sets in 12 ga. One beaver tail one splinter, one DT one SST chokes ranged from full to Q1 and the barrels were all interchangeable two 26" & 2 28"... yep you guessed it, I sold them... ug.

Chuck Heald
03-29-2010, 03:40 PM
What I was curious about with the Parker BTFE's is whether the latch depth was the same. On many doubles, the latch for a splinter has a different paw and allows the splinter to be a thinner profile than the BTFE. Many conversions to BTFE from splinters require that that latch be inset below the surface because the latch paw length is not correct for a BTFE. (see sketch below)

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/roaniecowpony/Pitts/forends.jpg

Dean Romig
03-29-2010, 05:48 PM
From my observations I am of the opinion that the assembled forend iron and latch from either type of forend are the same depth. Anyone with a gun that has both a splinter forend and beavertail or "trap" forend should be able to measure one against the other. I know John Dunkle's Grandfather's wonderful AAHE Double Trap has one of each style of forend... maybe John would be good enough (if he's currently at home) to take some quick measurements.

Joe Bernfeld
03-29-2010, 08:16 PM
Chuck, as I said (yes, Dean, I said it before :)), it doesn't seem possible to measure the thickness of the forend metal accurately without removing the wood (which I prefer not to do). As Dean said, I'm pretty sure they are the same thickness because both the beavertail and splinter will go on the same barrels, and both are inlet flush with the bottom of the wood. When I get home on Thursday (out of town now), I'll see if I can measure them somehow, but I'm almost positive they are the same. I can send a picture from the side, but I don't think it will answer your question (the wood hides all the metal from a side view).
Joe

Dean Romig
03-29-2010, 11:20 PM
Many conversions to BTFE from splinters require that that latch be inset below the surface because the latch paw length is not correct for a BTFE.


Chuck, what you are referring to is a non-Parker "BTFE from splinter" conversion which are almost invariably (unless done by an expert stocker well versed in Parker shotguns) much thicker than would be an original or correctly done replacement. The usual Parker Bros. and Remington Parker BTFEs were wide and flat and the barrels sat quite low into the wood. I have seen the kind you refer to and unfortunately they usually are abominations.

Dean Romig
03-29-2010, 11:32 PM
Chuck, as I said (yes, Dean, I said it before :)), it doesn't seem possible to measure the thickness of the forend metal accurately without removing the wood (which I prefer not to do).

Actually Joe, I can think of a couple of ways to measure the depth or thickness of both types of forend on the same gun. The first way is probably the simplest. Begin with a flat, stable, unobstructed work surface. Lay the inverted gun on the work surface (top rib down) with the bead just off the edge of the surface. With one type of forend or the other firmly in place on the barrels measure the distance from the work surface to the highest point of the latch and record it. Now measure from the work surface to the lowest point of the latch in order to establish an angle if such angle exists. Record this number. Now, replace the forend with the other type of forend and repeat the process. I suggest the measurements should be the same.

Chuck Heald
03-30-2010, 01:39 AM
The easiest way I can think of is to put a block of known dimension on the forend iron that is slightly higher than the sides of the barrel channel and sets flat on the forend iron. Then measure with some calipers over the block and forend assembly to the surface of the deeley latch. Do the same thing on the splinter forend at the same exact location.

Joe Bernfeld
03-30-2010, 02:05 AM
Good ideas, Dean and Chuck! I'll try them for sure on Thurs. (if someone doesn't beat me to it) and let you know.
Joe

Chuck Heald
03-30-2010, 09:49 AM
Joe, Thanks much for even considering any of this.

I just thought of another method that should be simple if you have a 6" dial, vernier, or digital caliper. Take the assembled gun, with barrels and forend together, measure over the rib to the latch at the most forward point and most aft point.

Joe Bernfeld
04-01-2010, 02:19 PM
Here ya go, Chuck. Bear in mind that I am comparing 12 and 20 ga splinter forends against a 28 ga beavertail. Both the 12 and 20 ga splinter forends' metal measured the same: 0.75" thick at the rear screw, by 0.60" thick at the front screw. The beavertail was also 0.75" thick at the rear screw, however it was 0.8" thick at the front screw, and the wood carries this extra thickness to the end. You can see in the first pic that the BT metal has a raised section around the front screw. In the second pic I tried to show them side by side (:p) in the same picture so you could see the extra height at the end of the BT. I hope these help you.
Joe

Chuck Heald
04-02-2010, 05:12 AM
Joe,
Outstanding effort and pics! Even though the metal is thicker at the iron's tip, the .200" difference and the last picture verify that there is indeed a difference in the depth of the latch at the front. Just as I had thought, I'd have to modify the latch and use a longer screw to get the depth of the latch right with a BTFE wood of correct profile.

Many thanks Joe.

Dean Romig
04-02-2010, 06:52 AM
I think I would still hold out for the Repro with two sets of same gauge barrels and both styles of forend to take measurements from before starting any work on a second forend of a different style. JMHO

Fred Lowe
04-03-2010, 09:45 PM
Chuck,

If you still want a side by side photo of the 28 splinter and beavertail I can take them for you. I have both here. Just let me know exactly what angle you are wanting to see.

Steve Kleist
04-05-2010, 02:44 PM
I am not a gunsmith by any means, but I fitted a blank beavertail to my splinter forend as a winter project. Yes the splinter hardware IS a bit thinner but the BT can be thinnned as well and fitted and bedded before checkering.
Steve Kleist Ely, MN

Chuck Heald
04-06-2010, 01:50 AM
Steve,
Are you saying you had a machined blank forend?

Thanks
Chuck

Steve Kleist
04-06-2010, 09:18 AM
Chuck,
Yes, I did get a machined forend, actually two of them. Neither was a perfect fit, but close. One came from ebay, the other from a friend. I had to make both a little thinner, possibly 1/8 inch but it was not a big job. Again, I am NOT a gunsmith.
It may have been my workmanship but one cracked while hunting shooting heavy loads, and I repaired it. The other is holding up so far, and I do shoot a little.
If you want to see a photo of them, send me your home email address via Parker Personal message. I cannot seem to resize the photos to post them here.
Steve Kleist

Steve Kleist
04-06-2010, 09:21 AM
Ooops! I guess the photos did get through. SK

Chuck Heald
04-08-2010, 12:40 PM
Steve,
Right now, I'm not sure whether I'm going to make the forend myself or just have someone like Turnbull (unlikely since he's rediculously expensive) or someone else, make it. I've made some BT forend patterns using an old splinter and some wood and bondo. Not much to the whole process that's very difficult, but I don't have a good reference other than pictures. In the end, that may be close enough.