Need advice and info on 28ga Repro mods

[Marvin Kells]

I have a 28ga repro two barrel set (SG/DT/BTFE) and I'm seriously considering opening up the chokes. I have been reluctant to do so for fear of affecting the gun's value, but find I have no use for a 28" M/F barrel (IM/XXF in reality).

I have no intention of ever selling the gun, so opening the 26" barrels to Q1/Q2 and the 28" to IC/M seems like a good alternative that would allow me to fully utilize both barrels of the set. I hunt infrequently, but shoot a lot of clay targets (skeet, sporting clays, and five stand).

Am I on track here, or should I continue to ignore this impulse and stick to shooting the 26" barrel only?

If I do decide to go for it, any recommendations on who could best do the work? I live in the Atlanta, GA area.

Any and all comments and suggestions are welcomed!

[Dean Romig]

It's your gun Marvin. If the future value of the gun is inconsequential to you then go for it. I do quite well with my 26" imp/mod barrels at both skeet and hunting and have never wished for a set of mod/full barrels. Sounds like a winning combination to me.
The best man for chokes is Mike Orlen and he lives in Amherst Ma. I don't have his contact info with me at the moment but someone will post it here for certain.

[Greg Baehman]

Here's another possibilty Marvin...how about just ordering an additional new 28" bbl. set from CSMC and have that set choked to suit you. Then you'd never have to be concerned about altering the originality of your gun. Who knows---maybe we still worry after we're dead.:eek:

[Larry Frey]

Mike Orlen
79 Salem Street
Amherst, MA. 01002
(413) 253-5665

[Marvin Kells]

Here's another possibilty Marvin...how about just ordering an additional new 28" bbl. set from CSMC and have that set choked to suit you. Then you'd never have to be concerned about altering the originality of your gun. Who knows---maybe we still worry after we're dead.:eek:

Greg,

I like that idea, except for the $$$ part. :) The CSMC website, however, indicates 28 ga barrels are available only for "0" frame sizes. Only .410 barrels are available for the "00" frame. Let me know if this is incorrect, or if I'm missing something.

[Joe Bernfeld]

Marvin, do it! That gun should have been available in a 26" Q1/Q2, 28" IC/Mod combination originally. If it were me, I'd pay as much (or more) for one that was rechoked to that configuration, as an original one with the too-tight chokes.
Joe

[E Robert Fabian]

I agree with Joe, By the time you are interested in selling it the gun will be in well used condition [ not collector condition] and some one will jump on finding a Twenty Eight ga. with those choke selections. That said I really don't care what my skeet gun is choked after shooting a friends 410 over and under choked full and full with a 1/2 oz. of shot and shooting one of the best rounds of my life.

[Greg Baehman]

Greg,

I like that idea, except for the $$$ part. :) The CSMC website, however, indicates 28 ga barrels are available only for "0" frame sizes. Only .410 barrels are available for the "00" frame. Let me know if this is incorrect, or if I'm missing something.

It appears you're right Marvin, my mistake; IMHO I believe CSMC is missing the boat by not offering a 00-frame set of 28" or 30" bbls. Have you shot your M/F set of bbls. at 5-stand? I shoot our club's 5-stand set up with the 28" M/F pair of bbls. of my 28-ga. Parker Repro 2-bbl. set and seem to score as well with them as I do with any other gun.

You know how anal most Parker owners are with their Parkers and what they'll probably say should you have the chokes altered--"some yahoo went and opened the chokes and destroyed its originality and therefore its value!"

That's a scarce configured gun you have, I'd recommend you leave them original as is, or better yet...sell or trade that gun to me!

[Rich Anderson]

My 28ga has 28 inch bbls choked skeet in/skeet out and I wouldn't want it any other way.

[Chuck Heald]

If you really don't care about the resale value and want the most utility from your 28" set, put some Briley choke tubes in it and be done with it. You'll be able to have any choke from cylinder to full.

There! I've said it! ....He did say he had no intention of ever selling it.

Me? I'd leave them as is and learn to puff those targets with it. I have a BSS 20g with F/M that I have shot great skeet with, won a buckle for small gauge sporting clays, and hunted pen raised chukar and pheasant as well as wild SoDak pheasant with successfully. I've never wanted to open the chokes since that first round of skeet I shot with it when I ran the field...and trust me, I'm no competitive clay shooter.

[Marvin Kells]

Marvin, do it! That gun should have been available in a 26" Q1/Q2, 28" IC/Mod combination originally.
Joe

Joe,

Couldn't agree with you more! That is the only thing that could make this set more perfect. I love the configuration, and it has the longer 14 5/8'' LOP which is ideal. Thanks for the encouragement!

Marvin

[Marvin Kells]

If you really don't care about the resale value and want the most utility from your 28" set, put some Briley choke tubes in it and be done with it. You'll be able to have any choke from cylinder to full.

There! I've said it! ....He did say he had no intention of ever selling it.

Me? I'd leave them as is and learn to puff those targets with it.

Chuck,

A very practical suggestion but I just hate choke tubes, especially on a SxS.

I like your suggestion to "learn to puff those those targets" though, and that is exactly what happens when I do connect with the left barrel (actually the barrels measure IM/XXF). Maybe I'll try a two step process since Mike Orlen's prices seem very reasonable. Just have the 28" barrels open up to their actual markings of M/F (the left barrel is just ridiculously tight). Then see what happens. Hmmmmm .... :vconfused:

[Kenny Graft]

I have talked about this not long ago...I have not had time to patern my X-full repro's as yet. Long as the paterns are not being compromised by the tight choking and they hit point of aim I will not have them altered. Use/test the standard 3/4 oz load in the tight choked 28gauge. Unless you have a minty gun properly changing the chokes will not degrade its value. Used gun price will not be harmed in my opinion. thanks all Kenny Graft SXS ohio....(-:

[Bill Murphy]

If I bored out every full choked gun that I enjoy shooting skeet with, Mike Orlen would own my house. Personally, I quit shooting skeet for a living at least six months ago. My 19X25s with my duck guns are much more satisfying than the 25 straights with skeet guns. To be realistic, though, most people buy 28 gauge Repros to shoot, not to resell. If I had a two barrel set to shoot, I would put Brileys in the 28" barrels. I don't believe that would affect the value of a field used gun except to make it more valuable.

[Steve Kleist]

Hi Marvin,
I also have a 28 ga Parker Reproduction two barrel set. One is 28" M/F and the other 26" is stamped IC/M, however the IC/M barrels have been opened up to about SKT/SKT.
Had the shorter set not have been opened for me, I would also have done so.
The open set is perfect for ruffed grouse and skeet, while the other is just fine for pheasants, waterfowl with bismuth, and a long sporting clays course.
Like you I bought the gun to shoot and the combination is fine, and I have not regretted the changes at all.
Just my 2 cents from a non expert Parker Reproduction enthusiast.
Good Luck.
Steve Kleist Ely, MN

[Jay Gardner]

Comment and then a question:

Comment: I have the same gun/configuration and I don't remember the last time I used the 28" barrels, primarily because I never need them. That being said, I may just have them opened because.... My suggestion would be to open them to IC/IM. Personally I want a little extra choke in the left barrel (but not XXF). Besides, It's always easier to take a little more choke out than to put it in.

Question: Regarding Mike Orlen, Mike has done a number of sets of barrels for me and I have always been extremely happy with his price and his turn-around time. However, recently there have been some comments about Mike on one of the other boards that have raised a flag. Specifically, he has become unresponsive to calls and letters and that barrels have languished for months. Anyone have any contact with Mike in the past few weeks?

Thanks,

DG

[Chuck Heald]

I never did hear how Ken Hurst made out with his barrels at Mike's. Anyone?

[Linn Matthews]

He got his barrels back

[Marvin Kells]

Jay,

A very good suggestion regarding IC/IM. I shoot that combination frequently in my Beretta O/U. Don't know why I didn't think of that! :)


Everyone,

Anyone had any experience using Bill Schwarz for barrel/choke work? He is close by in Ellijay, GA.

[Kenny Graft]

I do regular bisness with mike...no problems as yet! Fast and exl. work....He opened my 20ga 28" repro shooter to tight IC and light full, .010 and .024 from .018/.038 have not paterned it as yet but it works clays good...(-: Its a wonderful gun, PG-DT-SF, the engraving stands out now that most of the color case has worn off. The wood is top shelf and its a real looker in the rack at my club standing next to all them over-unders and auto's. Everyone fusses over it...the LORD has blesses me...(-: Thanks all kenny Graft SXS ohio...(-:

[Bill Murphy]

I am not sure of this, buy I think my friend Ken got his barrels back from Mr. Orlen untouched by a gunsmith's hand.

[Asa Kelley]

Marvin,

I have used Bill Schwarz since 1988 and he has rechoked steel and damascus Parkers for me. I am well satisfied with his work.

Asa Kelley

[Kenny Graft]

Asa...how does he re-choke barrels with no or little choke? Kenny

[Asa Kelley]

Kenny,

I used the wrong term. Bill has only opened chokes for me. Most all of the barrels I sent him were very tightly choked.

Asa

[Marvin Kells]

Thanks everyone for the input and suggestions. I decided to go for it because if I could have a "dream" two barrel set it would be 26" Q1 & Q2 and 28" IC & M. I dropped them off with Bill Schwarz last week.

One more question though: If all Repro's have chromed lined barrels, does that pose a problem when the chokes are opened up?

[Dave Suponski]

Marvin,Industrial chrome plating takes about an hour in the tank to coat to a depth of .001. So I would think that whatever you do to the chokes would remove all traces of chrome in the reworked area.

[Chuck Heald]

Two questions;

what is it about flush screwin chokes that everyone loves to hate? They are all but invisible and provide a flexibility.

What's this about chrome lined bores in the Repro?

[Dean Romig]

On a fine SXS screw-in chokes are considered by many to be detractors of originality and value.

Original advertising literature says that all Repros have chrome lined tubes.

[Joe Bernfeld]

Two questions;

what is it about flush screwin chokes that everyone loves to hate? They are all but invisible and provide a flexibility.

What's this about chrome lined bores in the Repro?

As Dean said all Parker Reproductions had chrome lined bores, and all were recommended for steel shot in chokes of modified or looser. However, they did not chrome line the choke area, in order to make it easier to open the chokes if desired. And by the way Chuck, thin wall choke tubes are great. I have a set in a Lebeau Courally. However, the Parker Repro barrels are not real thick, so it might not be possible to have them installed. The SCC model with internal screw chokes has thicker barrel walls at the muzzle.
Joe

[Jay Gardner]

Just dropped off my 28 ga Repro at Brad Bachelder's to have the receiver re-case colored. I also took with me both sets of barrels. The 28" barrels, marked M/F were choked .034/.012 and the 26" barrels marked Q1/Q2 were choked .014/.014. Me thinkst the 28" set had already been opened.

By the way: Brad showed me a 20 ga Repro frame they just finished refinishing. It looked very nice - similar to the $49k 28 ga Parkers Tony is/was making. Note: this is not an excuse to start critiquing re-case color jobs and who does/does not do a good job. I am just saying the job he did on that 20 ga was very pleasant to the eye and much better than the sprayed on crap the gun came with.

[Chuck Heald]

Jay
My 28" 28g has those exact choke dims. I've heard inconsistent information on whether these dims are as delevered.

[Chuck Heald]

Jay
My 28" 28g has those exact choke dims. I've heard inconsistent information on whether these dims are as delevered.

[Jay Gardner]

Jay
My 28" 28g has those exact choke dims. I've heard inconsistent information on whether these dims are as delevered.

That's interesting. Sounds like someone needs to start a survey of chokes by marking (F,M, IC, Q1,Q2) and constriction.

[Greg Baehman]

Just dropped off my 28 ga Repro at Brad Bachelder's to have the receiver re-case colored. I also took with me both sets of barrels. The 28" barrels, marked M/F were choked .034/.012 and the 26" barrels marked Q1/Q2 were choked .014/.014. Me thinkst the 28" set had already been opened.

Gosh Jay, those Q1/Q2 chokes at .014/.014 are odd balls--you ought to have Bachelder's mike them again to verify. My 28-ga. 26" Q1/Q2 set measures .004/.008, the 28" M/F set measures .014/.034...these are known to be the original unaltered chokings as they came from the factory.

[Jay Gardner]

Gosh Jay, those Q1/Q2 chokes at .014/.014 are odd balls--you ought to have Bachelder's mike them again to verify. My 28-ga. 26" Q1/Q2 set measures .004/.008, the 28" M/F set measures .014/.034...these are known to be the original unaltered chokings as they came from the factory.

Ugh! I brought the 26" barrels home with me.

[Dave Suponski]

All this talk made me go measure my 28ga. 26" Repro Q1/Q2. The chokes measure .004/.006 Hope this is of some help boys...:)

[Jay Gardner]

Any idea what an original Parker IC would measure?

My goal is to make the 28" barrels a little more versatile for clays AND grouse and I was thinking .010/.022. Thoughts?

[Dave Suponski]

Jay,I think I would go a little looser. Say .008/.016

With the plastic shotcups it has been my experience on the 28's they tend to pattern a little tight.

[Chuck Heald]

I'm in the west and grouse are not the popular game out west that they are here (I'm on the eastcoast on biz this week). But I thought a short barreled gun was more desireable for the woodsey grouse hunting?

[Dean Romig]

There's no short answer to that question Chuck. In the world of grouse shooting most of the flushes are in relatively thick cover and the "poke" shot is often all that a hunter can do. In such situations long barrels are a hinderance. Some say that the longer barrels may be blocked by saplings or branches but I think longer barrels are just that much more cumbersome to get moving. Certainly on such shots a good swing is out of the question. These days with longer barrels being the 'rage' at SC and Skeet, 28" barrels, to my mind, fall within the realm of 'grouse gun' length. I prefer a gun with 26" barrels but would find a light upland gun with 28" barrels easy to use.

Chokes for grouse on the other hand is another story....

[Marvin Kells]

By the way: Brad showed me a 20 ga Repro frame they just finished refinishing. It looked very nice - similar to the $49k 28 ga Parkers Tony is/was making. Note: this is not an excuse to start critiquing re-case color jobs and who does/does not do a good job. I am just saying the job he did on that 20 ga was very pleasant to the eye and much better than the sprayed on crap the gun came with.

Jay (or Brad),

Do you have a picture of the frame? I'm considering having this done but am not sure where best to send it.

[Jay Gardner]

You'll have to ask Brad to post a picture or send you one. I did not take one while I was there.

[Dave Miles]

Gosh Jay, those Q1/Q2 chokes at .014/.014 are odd balls--you ought to have Bachelder's mike them again to verify. My 28-ga. 26" Q1/Q2 set measures .004/.008, the 28" M/F set measures .014/.034...these are known to be the original unaltered chokings as they came from the factory.

My 28" barrels "where" .017" and .035". :eek:
They are now .004" and .014" :rolleyes:

[Jay Gardner]

My 28" barrels "where" .017" and .035". :eek:
They are now .004" and .014" :rolleyes:

Dave,

Brad must have mis-read the short barrels. Sounds like my 28" barrels are pretty much "stock" so I have to assume the 26" barrels are, as well so they should be .004/.006 or .008. The 26" berrels work pretty well for me on the skeet fields - no reason to mess with them. This afternoon I talked with Emily, who works with Brad and Lori, and changed the re-choking to r= .008 and l=.018.

Jay

[Tim Sheldon]

Jay, did you pattern your gun before you decided to have them done? I personally think on any old gun, before you get a hankering to change the chokes, you should go mic the barrels and then the chokes. Then go pattern all 4 barrels. You might find that you like what you have.
IMHO.
Tim

[Chuck Heald]

I just got back from a trip to the eastcoast today. I pulled out the Repro and looked. It's obvious the chambers are hardchromed. No coldblue testing is needed to see that. The muzzles don't appear to have hardchrome as described above.

[Joe Bernfeld]

I just got back from a trip to the eastcoast today. I pulled out the Repro and looked. It's obvious the chambers are hardchromed. No coldblue testing is needed to see that. The muzzles don't appear to have hardchrome as described above.

Chuck, all Parker Repros had chrome lined barrels. In a conversation with Jack Skeuse years ago, I was told that this does not include the choke area, in order to make it easier to open the chokes.
Joe

[Dean Romig]

Man, this is like Ground Hog Day... I could swear I read that same response by Joe a few days ago... Am I losing my mind?? It's like Deja Vu all over again :eek:

[Joe Bernfeld]

Man, this is like Ground Hog Day... I could swear I read that same response by Joe a few days ago... Am I losing my mind?? It's like Deja Vu all over again :eek:

True that, but it didn't sound to me like Chuck read it (how do you lose something you never had :rotf:?).
Joe

[Dean Romig]

(how do you lose something you never had :rotf:?).
Joe


You been talking to my wife??

[Chuck Heald]

:corn:

[Peter Clark]

Pretty sure I am the owner of the 20ga viewed by Mr.Gardner in Brad's shop. To say I am well pleased would be an understatement.

[Jay Gardner]

Pretty sure I am the owner of the 20ga viewed by Mr.Gardner in Brad's shop. To say I am well pleased would be an understatement.


If that's the case I can certainly understand you feeling that way.

[Peter Clark]

Did you see the wood?
-plc-

[Jay Gardner]

Did you see the wood?
-plc-

Trying to remember. He showed me one stock he was staining but I don't know if it was your or not. It appeared to be mid-process but it looked pretty good. It was a straight stock.

[Peter Clark]

Indeed, gun has straight stock. I had him muller the borders and the gun looks for all the world like a new DHE from the past. At least to me. I like it well enough that I am sending him two more. I like these guns so much that I will forego the "new one" I could buy with the price of the refinishing.

[Marvin Kells]

Peter,

Do you have any pictures? I'd love to see the gun!

Marvin

[Peter Clark]

I do have some Marvin if you give me an email or tell me how to post here.
Jay, I sent to your e-mail but they rejected???

[Peter Clark]

Here are before pics, if it works!



3266

3267

3268

[Peter Clark]

Here are after pics.

3269

3270

3272

3273

[Marvin Kells]

Peter,

Beautiful gun! The stock finish and case colors look great. What work did Brad do on the gun besides the case colors and stock refinish (if anything)?

Also, is that an oil finish? It really brings out the grain, and the color is very nice as well. Big improvement over the "before" photos!

[Peter Clark]

Marvin,
He also mullered the borders on the checkering and chased it. Nitre blued the trigger guard and buttplate. I have to send it back , however, because it is a 2 barrel job and the barrels have to be re-fit after case coloring. I neglected to send both sets in. I shoot this gun like it is part of me so I am very happy to have it so pretty. I will send him my other two repros for the same treatment. I am a confirmed repro lover and shooter. The finish appears to be an oil finish but does have some shine to it. The stain makes it look more Parker.

[Jay Gardner]

WOW! Can't wait to get mine back. Should be another 2-3 weeks.

Jay

[Chuck Heald]

Peter,
Approx how much can a fellow expect to pay for the metal and wood refinishing you had done?

[anthony schembri]

HI Marvin
I just bought a 28 gauge 28 inch barrel straight grip M/F'
I was thinking the same of opening the choke-losing the collector value.
any thoughts?
anthony

[Marvin Kells]

HI Marvin
I just bought a 28 gauge 28 inch barrel straight grip M/F'
I was thinking the same of opening the choke-losing the collector value.
any thoughts?
anthony

Anthony,

Of course I pondered that very question for some time, but ultimately I decided my two barreled set was a "shooter" not a collector piece. So I had the 26" barrels open to Q1 & Q2 and the 28" set to IC/M. Now I have a two barreled set that is actually useful!

So in a nutshell, if you are a frequent Repro shooter and don't own your gun as a collector item (95%+ condition), then I'd say go for it.

Dang gun should have been a Q1/Q2 and IC/M set in the first place! Who needs a IM/XXF 28ga anyway? :banghead:

[Harry Collins]

Anthony,

I would shoot the snot out of it first to see how it does for you. If you do decide to have it opened up, just do the right barrel to about .012 of so first and try it again before deciding on the full choked barrel. When hunting this is a great choke combination. One shot for close birds and one for long bird.

Harry

[Bill Murphy]

Good information, Harry. My old #97,032 28 gauge was bored cylinder and full from the factory. It measures .000 X .020 and killed a second barrel quail two seasons ago at 40 yards plus. Only my Wirehair suspected the bird was dead, and happily proved it.

[Harry Collins]

Bill,

My early 0 frame 28 is choked exactly like yours and I would not want it any other way.

Harry

[anthony schembri]

thanks everyone-
anthony

[Dave Suponski]

My PH 16 gauge is choked cyl and full. Perfect for the uplands...

[Jay Gardner]

I just had my 28" barrels opened to .008/.018. Seemed about perfect for grouse and clays. (Although, my 26" barrels, .004/.006, have been EXTREMELY effective on grouse).

[Dave Miles]

I just had my 28" barrels opened to .008/.018. Seemed about perfect for grouse and clays. (Although, my 26" barrels, .004/.006, have been EXTREMELY effective on grouse).

We're close Jay, I had my 28" barrels opened to .004" and .014"

[Jay Gardner]

We're close Jay, I had my 28" barrels opened to .004" and .014"

Great minds....

I picked up my Repro and Brads work actually looks better in hand than in the pictures. Also, I showed the gun to Nick Ranzau at Jaquas and they sold that repro originally in 1995 for $2,800. Small world.

[Kenny Graft]

I did a test with my repro 28ga. set....shot 50 rounds of clays X2 100 total. at each station I shot both sets of barrels IC/M M/F factory chokes at .oo4/.013 .014/.033 My scores ended up about the same for each barrel set. did well with open chokes on close birds and less good at longer shots....better with tight chokes on the longer shots and not as good on close ones. The chokes do exactly as they were ment to! In order to improve my score I would need to swap barrels for the presintation at hand. I have not paterned them barrels as yet....will be doing that soon. If I find no problems with my paterns I will not mess with the factory chokes. Will use the barrel set most usefull for the game to be hunted. I hope the 5# shot hunting loads patern well from the .033 full choke or the 6# shot. If it does I will be very happy and leave them alone! I have always shot SXS guns with ample choke. I do well at clays.....live birds are either left untouched or stone dead. Shotguns like rifles can be fussy about loads and paterns....If the patern is good the choke just needs mated properly to the range of the target. My Kansas bird gun is a 16ga. choked ic/full with double triggers, close in and far out....perfect....(-: Thanks all Kenny Graft SXS ohio...

[Bill Anderson]

I agree with Kenny. I really don't think barrel chokes should be changed or opened from the factory milling. Before long all too many of the Parker Reproductions will be in with the sea of molested guns like Parkers, Smiths, Winchesters, Ithacas, Remingtons and so on where it is becoming almost impossible to find an original choked shotgun. It is far better to use the choke as it was intended, instead of lowering value by opening the barrel. You might think you will own your shotgun until they close the lid on you, but in reality I think this happens very little. True you may have had your shotgun for 5, 10, 15 or more years, but eventually I think most owners change their mind, sell and move to another shotgun. If everyone would just slow down a bit and try different loads at various ranges you might learn that how each barrel is choked is really not that bad. Before too long you will be asking the seller of every Parker Reproduction that you want to buy if someone has opened the choke or not. Thankfully though, I think most of us are past using a hacksaw to solve a tight choked barrel problem like in yesteryears. That is why I never knock anyone who chooses to buy a screw-in choke shotgun, as they are not the ones who are destroying the very few unaltered classic shotguns still out there. Just my opinon, but a good one!

[Dean Romig]

I'll drink to that Bill :cheers:

[Bill Murphy]

There is a use for every choke combination. I find it strange that a guy who owns forty shotguns insists that every one of them be suitable for pointed quail. For gosh sakes, if you need a quail gun and don't own one, buy another shotgun.

[Dave Suponski]

"buy another shotgun" I like how you think Bill...:)

[Chuck Heald]

There is a use for every choke combination. I find it strange that a guy who owns forty shotguns insists that every one of them be suitable for pointed quail. For gosh sakes, if you need a quail gun and don't own one, buy another shotgun.

:rotf::corn:
Good one Bill.:bowdown: