Enos James

[Jack Cronkhite]

I do not know anything about these guns, other than Google articles recently read. Did that because I became aware of one going to auction. Are this gun maker's products considered to be fine doubles and worthy of driving a few hundred miles to check one out or are they considered to be not much??

Thanks,
Jack

[Francis Morin]

Maybe I have been overlooking the 16- a long time friend has a beautiful 16 BH on the No. 1 size frame 28" Acme barrels his granddad bought new in 1912-that great pre-WW1 walnut comes thru- A few weeks ago I bought a PH 16 26" Twist on the size 0 frame- it feels like a wand compared to my GHE 12 with 28" barrels No. 2 frame (and I can handle that 12 all day long)--

The Parker letter confirmed that 16 was made in 1908 and had original 26" Twist barrels, as it does today. I had thought about buying the Galazan repro barrels for the size 0 frame and having this 16 PH "updated" for 2.75 light plastic shotloads (I'm NOT a reloader)--

BUT- up jumped de ol debil- just looked at an older (est'd 1951?) Model 21- 16 gauge skeet (so marked on the receiver floorplate ahead of the trigger guard bow- also has 26" barrels and choked WS-1 and WS-2 ( imp. cyl. and mod.) SN is 20088- single selective trigger, ejectors, pg uncapped, field style beavertail forearm (not like the huge hideous beavertails I've seen on some LC Smiths- from a defunct beaver maybe?) solid red Winchester pad with the two plugs (June 1922 Pat'd date) and the field style receiver with the side arrow shaped bolsters (somewhat like on the AH Fox guns)- 95% barrel blue and 95% stock finish and checkering- only blue wear is on floorplate, which seems to be a characteristic of some M21's I hear--

I have the Schwing pocket book guide to Winchesters- but he doesn't show a serial number and date range for the M21 doubles, as he does for the M12's-In the case is the original instruction folder/pamphlet "Instruction for your Model 21) two Canada geese above- Winchester Trade-Mark Division of OLIN Industries, INC New Haven 4, Connecticut- NO Zip code- so this booklet had to have been printed before 1964- This is NOT an engraved M21- not a Custom shop- The lady said her late husband bought it new back in the 1950's- and it was stored in the case for many years- bores like mirrors-no wear on the gold plated trigger selector button or on the trigger blade either-

To compare a M21 to any hand made and engraved good American double, whether boxlock or sidelock, is like comparing anvils to aardvarks (IMO) The M21 came out way later with AISI 4140 steels- heat treated, NOT the older forged nickel steels later case hardened, as on the Parkers, Ithacas, AH Fox and LC Smiths-

This is just a plain old rugged workhorse, and it is way heavier than the PH 16 on the 20 frame--BUT- I have always wanted to own a M21- why are they so pricey in the plain unengraved models like this 16 skeet? Is it because there were way less of them made from about 1931 to whenever in the 1950's WRA management moved them into the Custom Shop status? Old Cactus Jack O'Connor sure wrote a bunch about them--:cool:

[Drew Hause]

Jack: check out the 1881 Folsom catalog here
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/20091267

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/20091267/344251771.jpg

[Jack Cronkhite]

Auction coming up soon. I have some pictures. Any thoughts on reasonable valuation, as I'm likely going to submit absentee bid rather than take two days of time to drive, inspect, overnight and attend in person.



http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/28884/normal_MVC-001F.JPGhttp://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/28884/normal_MVC-002F.JPG
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/28884/normal_MVC-003F.JPGhttp://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/28884/normal_MVC-005F.JPG
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/28884/normal_MVC-006F.JPG

[Dean Romig]

What - and cut into your Parker funds???

[calvin humburg]

Is that a copper leather rivet on the tang? ch