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charlie cleveland
01-09-2010, 06:11 PM
i was shooting some 3 1/2 in 10 ga loads today.the gun i was using was a ithaca mag. ten auto. ishould have stated these were reloadsthat ihad reloaded myself.they were reloaded by the manul andall things done right to my knowledge. the shells shot ok but the brass at base of shellsplit on 6 rounds right were the outer edge of the rim.the last round that i shot the plastic of the shell stayed in the chamber. the brass had come off theshell completely. i then went and got 3 new shells ihad not noticed as of yet that the plastic was still in the barrel. i tryed to chamber a round but it would not chamber this is when i noticed the plastic hull still in barrel. took a while to get it out with a long rod.this was kind of a scarey thought if that plastic had ofwent up the barrel a little faruther and round had chambered.... has any one ever had this to happen to them. or any body got any ideas to what caused this. i haved decided to get me a 3 1/2 double barrel to shoot my reloads in anduse onlyfactory loads inthe automatics.... my reson for doing this is be cause you can see down the bore of a double a lot easyer than you can of the auto.. hope someone has got some answers... thanks charlie

E Robert Fabian
01-09-2010, 10:51 PM
My guess it's the shells you are reloading. Try a different hull and double check your recipe.

Harry Collins
01-10-2010, 08:41 AM
Tell us what components you used to reload the 3 1/2" 10's and where you took the data from. Shame about the shells comming apart and damn lucky finding the stuck plastic in the chamber. I was in the blind with a mag 10 and thought I standing next to a 3 inch 50 doing rapid continuance fire.

Harry

charlie cleveland
01-10-2010, 03:12 PM
the 10 ga loads were taken from lymans 4th edition reloading handbook. the load i chose was a2 1/4 ounce load. the the hull used winchester polyformed case..paper base wad 6 point crimp...powder was blue dot 43 grains primerwin. 209 one rem sp 10 wad... velocity 1193 pressure 9600 lup. the hulls had only been reloaded one time actually 2nd time factory loaded first time. after the mishap i had with them i fired 3 factory loads thru gun and examined hulls they were in good condition. i will go back and check my reloading teniques i could have done something wrong.im very carefull with my reloading all of myweights were weighted on good scales. hope i can find out what went wrong thanks charlie

Destry L. Hoffard
01-10-2010, 06:09 PM
My buddy Gurton has had trouble with those Winchester 10 gauge cases coming apart if they had much age on them. He got a great deal on a bunch of Winchester XX 10 gauge stuff several years ago but upon shooting some of the shells he found the brass and plastic were coming apart in weird ways. Now he's got all these good shells but is afraid to use them. These were all factory loads so maybe it ain't you Charlie, it could just be the cases. Were the ones you were using the big shiny XX type or the later muted color steel shot type cases?


Destry

charlie cleveland
01-10-2010, 09:09 PM
destry tyey were the winchester x x the bright shiney ones. they are a few years old maybe several years old. you may have figured this thing out. i willhave to shoot a few more of them and reload them to the same specs to see what happens. ive not had a problem with them firing the first time maybe a secund loading is to much for hull....i hope i get to the bottom of this thing. charlie

Harry Collins
01-10-2010, 09:32 PM
Charlie,

I just checked the Alliant Relaoding Manual. Their max load for the Winchester Polyfomed with plastic base wad is 42.0 grains of Blue Dot, WW 209 primer, SP 10 wad and 2 1/4 oz of shot which yields 1165 fps and 10500 psi!

Harry

charlie cleveland
01-10-2010, 10:23 PM
harry this is a very close load to the lymans load . do you think one grain of powder could have caused the problem.or do you think it could be the hulls. i know there can be a lot of speculations to the problems ive had with this load.i hope to find problem soon.will load up the load you posted and try it. i will also load up the lyman load and try it.thanks for the info. charlie

Harry Collins
01-10-2010, 10:34 PM
Charlie,

If you have access to a chronograph, it may shed light on things. I would back off a little rather than tempt fate with 43 grains again.

Harry

lee r moege
01-11-2010, 12:20 PM
I also had trouble with Winchester shells in an Ithaca 37 20 ga. a few years ago. Occasionally you would pull the brass off the plastic. These were new shells and I think they were big box store heavy loads. I seem to remember Winchester was having troubles like that in all gages about 10 years ago. Lee.

charlie cleveland
01-12-2010, 08:26 PM
i will back off on the powder werei will not tempt fate..... isuspect it is the hulls sicne others have had trouble with the brass like i have. i will trw to load a few more of them but i will slack up on powder charge.what kind ofhulls would some of you 10 ga reloaders reccomend.does any body out thier that reloads use them in a automatic shotgun.i hope my next reloads sheds some light on these hulls coming apart. charlie

E Robert Fabian
01-12-2010, 10:58 PM
I use the Federal hulls, buy them at Ballistic Products.

Kurt Densmore
01-12-2010, 11:19 PM
Probably no related but...I use the federal hulls and have had odd things happen in really cold or really hot weather with a hot steel shot load. Cold weather sometimes the hull cracks, and I have had the brass crack. In hot temps(80 F) the pressure is high and the primers pop and the head will sometimes end up as a dome... Shooting out of a Browning auto 10. Using Alliant Steel powder. I don't shoot them on hot days anymore.

Kurt

David Lien
01-13-2010, 12:03 AM
Charlie: I shoot and reloasd lots of 10 Ga. Shells. Friends shoot many of the rattle guns in Northern Alberta, and also in my neighborhood. Two Rem SP 10 blew the barrels out the side this fall here where I hunt. 10 years ago local gunners bought a pallet of 10s from Federal (steel shot), all the shells seperated and Federal had to take them back. so this has been a common problem for some time.

Things to know
Winchester cases are brass "load at your own risk".
Remington and Federal are steel, inspect good before loading.
avoid hot primmers.
Do not load Blue dot in any case that has shot steel shot.
After a session with the cronograph I give up on Blue Dot.
Most serious 10 Ga. shooters load and shoot Ball powders or 4756 IMR
Lots of Data for the ball powders and 4756.
Do not rule out shooting card wads. They still work well.
Give that double gun some serious thought, they still work well to.

I have shot 10 Ga. Alcan brass cases with card wads for over 50 Yrs. in a number of double guns with never a problem.

The two guns that blew here this fall blew on the third shot, and like you said, "no way to look down the barrel".

I am pointed toward the Vegas gun Show in the morning I will send you a PM next week when I get home. good Luck
David

Bill Murphy
01-13-2010, 11:06 AM
I would not shoot any loads, factory or reload, in a repeating shotgun if I had experienced any hull or base wad separation. End of story. My greatest fear in bad shells is to have a case separate from the brass in a high condition Skeet Grade Model 42. Even good .410 cases sometimes separate, but 99 times out of 100, the plastic goes out the muzzle. I would be shooting only factory shells in a ten gauge auto.

charlie cleveland
01-13-2010, 11:56 PM
thanks fellas for all the info. i think i will buy me some new hulls get me a 3 1/2 inch doublegun. and only shoot factory loads in my auto ten.i sure liked that old ithica it did not kicknear as hard as a double gun does.that old auto has killed more turkeys thanthan even my parker 10 ga and thats a fact. ha thanks again charlie

Bill Murphy
01-14-2010, 02:04 PM
One advantage with a ten gauge double for turkeys is that you can pull both barrels if the bird is a bit out of normal head shot range. With an auto, the second shot is always a body shot, not good.

charlie cleveland
01-14-2010, 11:12 PM
thanks bill i will remember your advice when i get that old3 1/2 inch gun and that old turkeys hung up and wont come in any closer i will give him both barrels.will report the outcome if im able. charlie

charlie cleveland
01-26-2010, 10:49 PM
it was definally the hulls that were the problem. i will definally use only new shells in my ithaca 10 ga. i reload a lot of the short 10s and never no problems with any kind of hullin my double barrels. have any of you fellas ever loaded the 3 ounce load in the 3 1/2 .i seen and ad some company sells this load.was wondering about recoil that kinda thing.. charlie

Bill Murphy
01-27-2010, 08:39 AM
The three ounce load was marketed by Nitro Ammunition Company in lead especially for turkeys. It was not neccesarily a punishing load because it was fairly slow, like 1100 fps or less.

charlie cleveland
01-28-2010, 07:38 PM
thanks bill for the info. ilooked this company up andthere load was as you said about1100 feet a secound.they also had a load listed at 1200.funny thing was one one of the price lists the 1200 load was cheaper than the1100.im going to by a package of these and see how they pattern and find out how good penertration is. and see how recoil is.this could be agood turkey load. charlie