DHE indlay on butt

[mikael_kjaer]

Hi.
Hope what I write makes sense.

On my DHE is a plate in the butt, with some initials, I need help to decipher them.

It is a 20 gauge without safty, sold in Fresno CA in 1917.
There is an old thread about its history.

I have not been able to get the story of how the gun ended up in Denmark.
I have written to city town historic archive in Fresno, they told that back in 1900 there were a large number of Scandinavians in Fresno.
Therefore, if I could decipher initials, I might get on the way.

I just bought a new camera and dabbled with it.

Hope sombody i able to decipher it.

Best regards Mikael Kjaer

[Dean Romig]

Hello Mikael and Welcome to the Parker Gun Collectors Association.

You need to contact our Parker Researcher Chuck Bishop to order a PGCA Research Letter on your Parker. You will need to supply him with the gun's serial number and send him payment of $100 USD or join the PGCA for $40 and then a research letter will cost you only $40 additional, thereby saving you $20.
The research letter will likely tell you who the gun was ordered by and it may very well be the same person who's initials are on that silver oval in the stock.

Please let us know the results of your efforts. It appears to be a very interesting Parker and if it sports thirty-inch or longer barrels there are collectors who value such a gun very highly. What condition is the gun in? Can you show us more pictures please?

Best Regards, Dean

[mikael_kjaer]

Hi Dean

Thanks for the reply.
I have the PGCA Research Letter, the gun i sold from Lewalt and shleuters hardware store in Fresno CA. But there is no name of the end user.

I hope to find out who has used the gun and perhabs how it ended in Denmark.

In my first thread i placed a copy of the PGCA letter.

Mikael

[mikael_kjaer]

Link to my first thread

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2789&highlight=mikael_kjaer

[Dean Romig]

What is the title of your first thread so that we may look at it again.

The engraving on the emblem appears to be original Parker Bros. factory work, but of course, it may not be.

There's got to be more information somewhere - I can't believe this is a dead end.

Fresno is at the edge of a huge agricultural area in California and probably loaded with upland game and waterfowl in those days.

[mikael_kjaer]

The title was "Help with id"

[Dean Romig]

Thanks, I clicked on the link you provided and read it all over again.

Very interesting... there's got to be more to it.

[Greg Baehman]

Reading from left to right it appears the initials are G, T, C. The larger script T in the middle is usually the first letter of the last name . . . so my guess is the person's initials that had them engraved into your gun are GCT.

[Dave Noreen]

I read it as an L, F, C making the person's initials L.C.F., but I wouldn't bet a fiver on that!! Those designs either side of the date are often said to be associated with engraver Joe Loy when found on Remington or Ithaca doubles.

[dwight pugh]

Here's a stretch.... Maybe 4 letters
LGTC.... Something Gun & Trap Club ?

Or maybe not.....

ddp

[Chuck Bishop]

I'm guessing SHC

Check out this link, go about 3/4 down and look at Chopin, English, and especially Old Script.

http://www.designyourway.net/drb/free-handwriting-and-script-fonts-70-examples/

[mikael_kjaer]

it is a possibility that the initials are not the owner, but a Parker factory employees initials.
As Dave writes:
* "Those designs enten side of the date are ofte said two be Associated with engraver Joe Loy når found on Remington or Ithaca doubles."

[Dean Romig]

No Mikael, a Parker employee or contractor would not have been allowed to engrave his own initials on a gun shipped to a retail store, or anyone else for that matter. The initials are those of an owner of the gun, quite possibly the first owner but unfortunately we do not have the historical data that would support that.

[Brian Dudley]

The line engraving on each side of the date is very similar to the design used on the read area of trigger plates on Rondal engraved C grades.

[Dean Romig]

American Art Deco period.

[mikael_kjaer]

When I look at PA SxS proposals regarding copin font is my guess that from the left to righy stands SJTC. If the two letters in the middle is the last name it could be SCJT. But it helps me first if I can find a person associated with initials or Lewald and Schleuthers. Are there any ideas as to where I can search?
What type of person would buy such weapons in 1917?

Thank you in advance for your help

[Dean Romig]

Mikael, I agree with your thought that the initials are SJTC. I thought that from the beginning but didn't want to jump into that guessing game but now that you have said it I will admit that I agree with you.
I have looked on a couple of search engines and come up with nothing for Lewald and Schleuthers. If you can find a descendant of the original owners of the store you will have made a good start in possibly determining who the initials were for.
The Grade-3 or D grade guns were called the "Doctor's Gun" because of the $100 value of such a gun at that time and the ability to buy such a gun would generally require more than a modest annual income.

[mikael_kjaer]

In "western Field volume 5" from 1904 there is a article on page 45 where Lewald and Schlueter Company Fresno, CA has been a part of the organizing team for clay competition.

I can find the book online, but perhaps some one here has it?

The book i available in stores, but with at least 3 weeks delivery to Denmark

[Dean Romig]

Aha!... Maybe San Joaquin Trap Club... Fresno is right in the San Joaquin Valley.

Maybe the gun was presented as a top award for 1917.


Edited for wrong date - Thanks Mikael.

[mikael_kjaer]

According to my PGCA letter the gun was ordered January 9 1917 and delivered April 12 1917

[Brian Dudley]

I find it interesting it would have a date engraved on it. Could have been a presentation or award gun of some sort.

[mikael_kjaer]

On the inlay is engraved May 7 1917. Se page 1 in the tread.

[Erick Dorr]

sdc

[Erick Dorr]

My guess is that the initials are "S D C" with the "D" being the last name of the owner. Look at the engraved grip cap of Charles S Parker's gun in TPS pg 631 for the similarity in the style of the S and the C. FWIW
Erick

[Dean Romig]

Brian, it is my belief also that it is a presentation gun, hence the date.

[Bill Murphy]

If you can negotiate the search function for LA84foundation.com, looking at the date of the presentation compared to shoot held on that date, you may find mention of a presentation of a shotgun. Arthur DuBray gave away a bunch of Parkers as prizes, spent time on the west coast visiting shoots and taking orders. My 20 gauge Trojan grade came from Lewald and Schlueter in 1917 also. I was able to find information on this dealer on google.com including an offer to sell a picture of the store itself by the local historical society. I opted to print the picture on the google screen rather than spend money on a better print. Captain DuBray promoted the use of the 20 gauge on his visits to California and many of them are found with his name attributed on the order sheet.

[Bill Murphy]

Unfortunately, I found that my normal search vehicle on the LA84foundation.com website, the Sporting Life paper, has entries that end in 1916.

[Gary Bodrato]

the last initial is always in the middle so PCH would be my best guess pHc

[Gary Bodrato]

Pa SXS is right on, the lettering font is Champagne.

[Gary Bodrato]

Champagne font

[Gary Bodrato]

Champagne font, SCH

[Gary Bodrato]

Image 44 of California, White and Yellow pages (telephone book) March 1917 to November 1917, Fresno County, Fresno California. Listing;
1) Lewald & Schleuter - Guns and Ammo - 1050 I (i) Street Fresno,

Only one person in Fresno with initials SCH, Samual C. Hannibal,
lives at 1561 E Street Fresno
Born 1875, Died 1943 buried in Fresno.
It may be worth more investigation.

[Bill Murphy]

I am going with "a shoot held on that date". As I said earlier, LA84.com Sporting Life shoot entries end in 1916, but there are other sources. I also suspect a field grade military officer who was stationed in Europe in WW2. Read the other thread for some more information.

[Gary Bodrato]

California State Trap Shooters a History by Ray Brasser
on-line under that heading
All State Champs in all Classes back to the year 1912 for many class listings

[Mike Franzen]

Looking at the example of “Champagne Font” Gary posted on page 3, I don’t think there can be any doubt the middle letter is an H. Interesting to see this old thread resurrected and read the incredible circumstances that brought this gun to light. I wonder if Mikel will see this?

[Ed Norman]

would it make it easier if you could post both the initials on the butt and gary's champagne font alphabet next to each other on the same post?

[Mike Franzen]

Yes go ahead and do that. Be easier to compare.

[Ed Norman]

Yes go ahead and do that. Be easier to compare.

Mike,
I do not know how to do that, I can barely turn on a computer. Hoping someone else can do that.

[Greg Baehman]

Here you go . . . S - H - C ?