question after fact

[calvin humburg]

Loading brass shells 12 gauge. Got size 11 wads, over shot card is loose, over powder seems a little better. Ordered muzzel loading cusion wads by mistake. Would you use size 10 on all 3 wads? O, shooting black, goex dirty stuff swiss is king. I'm weighing shot and powder Is this correct 1 dram,27 grains of black. Oz of shot 437.5. Will glueing in over shot wad cause any more pressure. thanks 4 time ch post script shot 1 at farm by cattle pin bought caused stamped going 2 be fun hunting with these new agers, boom

[Forrest Grilley]

Good to hear someone else is loading up some brass shells with black powder as well. I'll tell you what has been working for me.

I use Magtech 12 ga. brass. My powder charge is 82 grains (3 drams) of FFg Goex, measured by volume. 1 1/8 ounce of shot. For wads I use two 11 ga. nitro wads on top of the powder, one waxed 11 ga. fiber wad, and a 10 ga. overshot wad. All wads are from Circle Fly. After pressing in the 10 ga wad with a 3/4" dowel, I seal the edges with Duco cement.

The same volume of Swiss powder will give slightly higher pressures and velocity. You may have to experiment with the powder charge a bit after seeing how your gun patterns. If you think your pattern could be a bit tighter or more uniform, try dropping down your powder charge by 5 to 10 grains and see how it performs.

I have a grade "G" 12 ga. hammer gun from 1885, and this load performs very well in it.

[calvin humburg]

Forrest,
Does 82 grains weighted = 3 drams volume? Do u compress your powder when u put your nitro wads in before u put your fiber wad in? How do u put your primers in your mag teck hulls I'm using hardwood punch. I got a 81 lifter not sure of grade o? sn 22266
Thanks ch

[Forrest Grilley]

Calvin, 82 grains measured by volume is not the same as 82 grains measured by weight. It is very important to keep this in mind when looking at black powder loads. The main thing is to be consistent however you decide to measure your black powder. With the amounts of powder that we are talking about here, it's not really a safety issue, but you do want to be consistent so it will be easier to develop successful loads. I always measure black powder by volume because I find it much quicker to do so, others may prefer a different technique.

I use my MEC shotshell reloading press to compress my nitro wads with about 30 lbs of pressure before adding my fiber wad. This could be done by had with a dowel, and millions of shells have been loaded that way, but again I like using the press just to be a little more consistent.

For the primers I use a small hard rubber mallet to gently tap them in. I've never had one pop yet, but make sure all powder is far away from the area when you re-prime like this. I believe there are a couple companies that carry a 12 ga shell holder (I think Buffalo Arms might be one) so you could re-prime in a common Lee, Lyman, etc...cartridge press. I might pick one up someday when I get tired of tapping in the primers.

Good luck.

[Harry Collins]

Calvin,

Forrest is spot on. Do not try to weigh black powder. I have a scoop that I use to scoop up the powder. I use the same scoop for the shot as well. I do use an over powder card in addition to the cushion wads and a 10 gauge over shot card. I like a hot glue gun to seal the over shot card because it is quick, clean and dry's instantly. I seat the wads over the powder with a dowel and use a little body weight to push down. To seat primers I have a smooth surfaced vise. Just insert the primer and gently close the vise to seat the primer. This is real quick, but again have the bench clear of powder just in case.

Harry

[Harry Collins]

Calvin,

Use an empty 45/70 case as a dipper/scoop for your powder and shot. It should hold about 75 grains plus or minus. I have taken a wire coat hanger and cut about 6" off and flattened one end with a hammer then wrapped it around an empty cartridge (leave the spent primer in) then soldered it near the rim and put a small loop on the other end to hold onto. It should give you a dandy load. The Remington 45/70 case has more volume than the Winchester case so use a Remington. I have the grandchildren this week, but if I have a moment I will see what volume of FF I can get into these two 45/70 cases.

Harry

[Fred Preston]

Not too refined, but I have heard that the old front loaders used a measure of shot (1oz., etc.) driven by an equal measure of powder (#2 Goex in my case) and it seems to work. It would be interesting to know the pressure-velocity results.

[Harry Collins]

Calvin,

All my WW brass is loaded, however a Remington 45/70 case holds about 80 grains by volume. I poured that into my Parker powder/shot dipper and it was just shy of 3 drams of powder and would hold just a little less than 1 1/4 oz of shot. That should be a good load.

Harry

[calvin humburg]

Harry,
I got a torrington dipper from friend I need 2 soder a handle on it will it work it has shot notches on 1 side and drams on other side. I didn't know if it was drams of black or drams of smokless. So a dram of ffff would b hotter than a dram of f? I know I ask alot of qustions but I just want 2 get it right. Goex is good powder it just makes thoes little round red balls in my flintlock barrel and the shotgun shell reminded me. ch

[Harry Collins]

Calvin,

The "dram" refers to black powder. On modern shotgun shell boxes useing smokeless powder they list the dram equivilent (ie: 3 Dram 1 1/8 oz of shot). In other words this load will drive a 1 1/8 oz load @ 1200 fps. So, your dipper will have 3 dram (black powder) on one side and 1 1/4 oz of shot on the other. FF will work just fine. FFF will be a little faster and you do not need it. In the old days they loaded their shells to about 1080 fps.

Harry

[calvin humburg]

Harry,
So 3 drams of black and an oz of shot will go around 1200? And the fellows who loaded 1080 fps where using a lighter load? ch

[Harry Collins]

Calvin,

Most of the black powder loads were equal volumes of powder and shot. FF was the powder of choice and an equal amount of shot to 3 drams of powder was 1 1/4 oz. That would sail out the barrel at about 1080 fps. If you dropped the shot charge to 1 1/8 oz with 3 dram of powder you would get close to 1200 fps. Equal amount of shot to 2 3/4 drams of powder is 1 1/8 oz. That too had a velocity of about 1080, but if you drop the shot to 1 oz in a 2 3/4 dram load you will get about 1200 fps. The difference in foward allowance between a shot charge at 1080 fps and one of 1200 fps at 30 yards is just a 3 to 4 inches. In England not that many years ago a standard velocity load was 1070 fps and a high velocity load was 1120 fps.

Harry

[calvin humburg]

Harry,
That's helpful. U ever shoot 1 1/4? ch

[Harry Collins]

Out of deference to the age of my guns and my shoulder I only shoot 1 1/4 oz loads out of my 10 gauges and when I am duck hunting with my 12 gauges. With a 12 gauge I much prefer to shoot 7/8 oz or 1 oz loads at about 1150 fps. They kill wonderfully and they break targets plus they are cheeper to reload and very easy on the shoulder when shooting 100+ shells a day. I have few #1 frame Parkers that are very light and the 7/8 oz load really shines through these guns when busting alot of caps.

Harry

[Kurt Densmore]

I have been loading up old paper hulls with BP and would like to get some 12 and 16 ga brass hulls. Do these need to be full length resized if you are shooting them in different guns ?? I have some old brass Alcan 10 ga shells that will not chamber in any 10's I have owned. Can they be resized in a MEC single stage press ? I just need to order a few boxes of Alcan brass and get going. The hammer double brass uses 209 primers but they are a little more $$.

Kurt

[Bill Murphy]

Kurt, I would never shoot brass cases in more than one gun unless the guns had identical chambers. If the cases need resizing, quit using that lot of cases in the smaller chambered gun and get some new cases for that particular gun. We don't want to be "working" brass cases every time we load them. They will not put up with much of that. The same goes for chamber inserts that are relatively thin, like 8 to 10 or 10 to 12. If you shoot a heavy load in a thin chamber insert, it will expand and not fit in the smaller chambered gun any more. I have been bitten by that dog before and now dedicate thin chamber inserts to one gun only.

[Paul Harm]

Calvin, to answer one of your questions; I use 10ga overpowder and overshot wads- 11ga filler [ or cushion ] wads when loading the brass shells. From my muzzleloading days I like a tight fit and the 11ga overpowder wad doesn't feel right to me. Loading the new plastic shells I just use 12ga wads. I like 82gr and 1oz for clay shooting. At one time I was able to prime and deprime brass shells on a Mec 650 but sold the tooling and all my brass shells to a cowboy shooter. Now I have a second 650 just for BP. Paul