1939 Runge

[Bruce Day]

xxxxx

[allen newell]

Bruce, I assume that's Robert Runge's engraving and not his son Bob'. Very nice, very very nice indeed

[E Robert Fabian]

Now that's a great floor plate scene.

[calvin humburg]

Bruce what a great Rem. gun. All Setters interesting.

[Pete Lester]

Scott Kittredge reminded me of this video the other day, perhaps some of you have already seen this, at 20:45 Robert Runge explains his job at Remington while engraving a custom Model 1100 in 1969. Is this father or son?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXh9q4TnCNw

[Bill Murphy]

Son.

[paul stafford jr]

wasn't there a grandfather who also engraved?

[Bill Murphy]

I believe the Grandfather was a barrel person or such. His name was named on many stock book entries. Engravers were not mentioned in stock book entries.

[David Dwyer]

Does anyone know the years the father and son engraved for Parker Bros.?


/

[Dean Romig]

The Parker Story should have that information. I'll go take a look.

[Dean Romig]

Richard Runge emigrated to the U.S. in 1870 and was first listed in the Meriden record in 1876. He was listed in the Parker records as early as 1882.

Robert R. Runge, son of Richard started working at Parker Bros shortly after 1900 and apprenticed engraving under Frederick Anschutz. Anschutz was chief engraver from 1911 til 1930 when he died.

Robert P. "Bob" started with Remington in 1934 in the Parker Gun Works as an apprentice engraver.

Both Robert R. and Robert P. worked in the engraving of Parker guns and possibly other Remington guns after the cessation of the Parker project in 1942, when WW II began, til about 1947 or so.

[Bill Murphy]

We should refer to Kevin McCormack's article on Bob Runge to determine when he quit engraving for Remington. It was later than 1947 because he signed some 11-48 and Sportsman 48 semi automatic shotguns which were introduced in 1948. He engraved a bunch of Parker upgrades in the fifties and later which are now showing up on the market after their owners pass to the next generation.

[Dean Romig]

I should have made the distinction of Robert R. having worked for Remington til about 1947 or so.

Didn't mean to mislead.

[Dean Romig]

He engraved a bunch of Parker upgrades in the fifties and later which are now showing up on the market after their owners pass to the next generation.

But wasn't that in the days of the DelGrego upgrades? I don't think Remington was in the business of upgrading Parkers were they?

[Bill Murphy]

Yes, Dean, RPR was retired from Remington when he and Larry Senior collaborated on the great upgrades.

[David Dwyer]

I recently had the pleasure of shooting a Runge/ DelGrego AIS upgrade. This gun started life as a VHE 28" 410 and was upgraded early on by Bob and Lawrence. Stunning gun!! My question is one one value. If an original existed it would be a US$ 200,000 + gun. What would be the value and an "almost original" upgrade?
David

[Dean Romig]

Same old answer David.... Put a price tag on it and it may never sell at the 'asking price' but put it in an auction and a few dedicated bidders who just must have it may drive the price even higher than the 'asking price'.

Short answer... "whatever the right buyer is willing to pay."

[Larry Frey]

I recently had the pleasure of shooting a Runge/ DelGrego AIS upgrade. This gun started life as a VHE 28" 410 and was upgraded early on by Bob and Lawrence. Stunning gun!! My question is one one value. If an original existed it would be a US$ 200,000 + gun. What would be the value and an "almost original" upgrade?
David

Dave,
One was sold at our gun club several years ago. I was not present and did not get to see the gun but it sold in a couple of minutes for $35k. I remember thinking the buyer must be crazy but now, I'm not so sure.

I did get to handle what appeared to be a D/R 410 AHE upgrade that Robin Hollow had at the Greenwich show a few years ago and I believe they were asking similar money if not more.

[Dean Romig]

I did get to handle what appeared to be a D/R 410 AHE upgrade that Robin Hollow had at the Greenwich show a few years ago and I believe they were asking similar money if not more.

Larry, that one had a "POR" tag on it, like we often see on RHO high-end guns, but before the show was over the tag was changed to $49K

[David Dwyer]

Thanks guys-this was offered to me for $45,000 and I felt that was pretty steep. I can buy a lot of original Parker for that kind of US$

[Bill Murphy]

RHO has had an AHE .410 of some kind for going on decades. It may be overpriced. To see realistic prices, check the realized prices in the last Julia auction.

[Dean Romig]

Just one man's observation - "POR" is often a good indicator that the item for sale may be overpriced.

[Bill Murphy]

The AHE .410 has always had an advertised price, $49,000.

[Rich Anderson]

If the RHO AHE 410 is 49K thats not a bad price even for an upgrade. A VHE will run 30K or more add in the cost of engraveing, new wood etc. I like my Fox (CSM) FE for way under half that money:)

[Dean Romig]

The AHE .410 has always had an advertised price, $49,000.

Right Bill, I was simply making reference to so many of his and others that have a POR tag.

[David Dwyer]

COB
I had not thought of it that way and not sure if I agree. I have a VHE 28ga 30" barrel, straight grip 95 % CC gun I would not part with for less than US$ 35,000, so a "AIS 410" in the same condition might look like a good deal at US$ 49,000, The problem is original vs upgraded makes a huge difference in resale value . I can sell that original easily but those R&D upgrades sit around a while. JMHO
David

[charlie cleveland]

my 410 stevens at 650 looks good to me....charlie

[Bill Murphy]

The posters here obviously have not read the "Prices Realized" price list for Parkers in the Julia auction. Give it a shot, then post.

[Rich Anderson]

David you just made my point a VHE for $35K. Look at it this way, IF you could find an AHE 410 (I honestly don't know if Parker ever made one) it would probably cost at least $200K+.

Taking that into consideration lets just say our well heeled sportsman has a spare 50K lying around to invest in a 410. He can buy a brand new Fox (CSM) FE for that. Now he uses that Fox for a couple of years and decides he wants to go to a English gun say a Holland & Holland or a Purdy. He can sell the Fox for about 60% of what he paid for it. Now lets say he has the Parker upgrade AHE 410 for the same 50K. He has a much nicer looking gun cosmetically than he would have with a VHE for less then 2X the price of the VHE. He couldn't take a VHE and turn it into an AHE for the difference in cost. To top it all off he still has a Parker and the Parker will hold value more than the Fox or the English guns. Just my humble opinion and I have a high grade upgrade and wouldn't have been able to afford an original AAHE. It's still a small bore, a beautifull gun and most importantly it's a Parker:bowdown:

The 410 mkt is a small one indeed and its always easier to buy a gun than to sell a gun. IF I had that kind of money for a 410 (or any thing else) I stick to my previous comment and would buy a Fox and pocket the difference.

[Bill Murphy]

Read the Julia auction prices.

[Dean Romig]

IF you could find an AHE 410 (I honestly don't know if Parker ever made one).


Yes, in fact they did.